ID INFO for 2 30 cals-Kynoch 30-30 & Belgian Short Range


#1

Hi Folks, help needed on these 2 rounds please, on the left is a KYNOCH 30-30headstamped round with a [b]POINTED[b] FMJ bullet it has a nice tight factory crimp, was this a special load and if so for what weapon ? on the right with a [b]F N 60 [b]headstamp is a 303 with an unusual projectile ( short range/practice ?) which is stepped aluminium, purple seals double crimped at the neck (dot and stab crimps) see photos



thanks Randy


#2

Info just in on the round on the right, its a Belgian Grenade Blank, with 3 step aluminum bullet, see page 94 of Datig 3 , we must read our Datig’s more oftern, how about that “pointed FMJ 30-30 by Kynoch”, any ideas anyone ? Thanks Randy


#3

Randy, the FN is not a grenade blank -as Datig says- but a short range practice cartridge using a pellet and just the primer as a propelling charge. There are some different models in 7.62 x 51 NATO caliber. I’ll post more information later.


#4

Fede has a far more great knowledge than I do but in this case I have my doubts. Long ago I hear a conversation between an FN employee and a cartridge collector that this was an igniter. It was at a start at a cartridge meeting so it was first cartridge hunting and later it go out of my mint to ask the FN employee more information about it. I have several different in my collection, one of witch I can put a wire complete to the bottem, complete empty, the other one’s wire can inside till around the case. the weight difference between the two brass one’s, one empty the other “loaded” is 160 grain and 209 grain, the steel one is 191 grain. I like to know what they really are. You see them to little to cut a loaded one to see if there is a pellet inside.

Jan


#5

Randy & Jan, sorry, I was wrong, this is not a short range practice round nor a typical grenade blank but a rifle grenade igniter. I don’t have the details of the FN development but this concept was designed in 1960 by AVR SA from Brussels, Belgium. The idea was to have a rifle grenade with a ballistic behaviour independent of the actual ballistic conditions appertaining to the firing of a cartridge by the firearm. The rifle grenade was also of special design and contains its own propelling charge, so the cartridge purpose is to ignite the said charge. The axial bore is filled with a charge of ignition powder (such as black powder) and closed at both ends with a cap made of small discs of some easily tearable material.


#6

Thanks Fede finally a solution for these strange rounds. It corespondent with the dates of the rounds, the .303 of 1960, the steel cases one of 1961, the one with piont indents at the end of the shoulder of 1962, and the other one of 1963, has somebody other dates?
Jan


#7

Thanks Fede and Jan for your replies, sorry for delay in getting back to you our new ADSL server is giving us big problems, Regards Randy


#8

I am dubious about the .30-30. Over here flat nosed .30-30 bullets have always been hard to obtain. Impossible now that you can only use FMJ for target shooting. So owners have always been inclined to reload spitzers and single shoot them on the ranges. Its about the only way you can have a .30-30 over here now because they are virtually never used for hunting… I don’t know anyone who would reload a .Kynoch case in the last twenty years.
The case appears to have a resizing line around it near the “K” written on it and it is dubiously shiny for a factory Kynoch case. they were always dull even when new.

Adendum: .30-30 shooting is growing in interest over here because the CAS shooting is growing but the guys are shooting milspec spitzers for exactly the reasons I gave before I doubt that the round pictured would cycle through a .30-30 But Britain had .30-30s possibly from WW1 to certainly WW2 as an auxillary calibre. The only application I have Knowledge about directly from personal knowledge is them being issued to train drivers in WW2 but TonyE and I have discussed the possibility that I have seen an example with WW1 markings, but its nebulous.


#9

Thanks for your reply Vince, when I saw this round my first thought was somebodys wildcat or a loader playing games, but the crimp looks very factory, then I thought maybe for a bolt action 30-30, it keeps turning up from my box of ??? cartridges so I thought no harm in trying the IAA forum, its solved plenty of questions for me in the past. Randy


#10

It is possible that the “factory crimp” on the 30-30 Win was done by a reloader. Lee sell a Factory Crimp Die, product code; 90822, in this calibre. I use these crimp dies in .308" Win and .303" British and they do produce a very neat, firm, crimp. The Lee die uses a four-segment crimp collet and the tiny gaps between the segments of the crimp are usually visible on the case mouth. Many “real” factory crimps use a six-segment crimp. How does your crimp look under close examination Randy?

gravelbelly


#11

Even a standard roll crimp can look good if expertly applied. As good as a factory crimp. I still come back to the resizing line and the slight (very slight) evidence of stretch below the resizing line to say its a reload. The different texture in the brass says it all. All of my .303 reloads look the same, its a fuction of a tapered case IMO.


#12

Hi Guys, well I have just had a look under a 10 x mike, it looks fine to me, but as you say it could still be not factory, so its back in the ??? box, thanks for all replies. Randy