ID of APDS and APFSDS projectiles

From the photo threads of USSubs I have ended up with some unidentified projectiles.

Is anybody able to ID the caliber and maybe the projectiles themselfes?
At least caliber and nationality would be great to know.

Here the ones in Question:

A somewhat unusual fin design. Could be 105mm.



Here one with driving bands which have land marks which are way too uniform to be from a normal barrel. Means these appear machined. Could be 76mm or 90mm.
no ID_in USA



Here one which has a somewhat unusual plastic driving band. The upper part appears like it has some Swedish design features.
no ID_in USA-

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The last one shown is similar in appearance to the 7.5 cm Slpprj 75-50mm M49 (1949) from Sweden

I wonder if the M49 design influenced this latter development in APDS projectiles? Sweden?

Brian

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Brian, thanks!
Yes, hard to tell what was going on when lacking all info on these items.

Unfortunately I cannot find the documentation to back this up but maybe someone here knows what I am talking about, but I believe the second projectile is a late or post-WW2 90mm APDS made by the US. Would have used a standard 90mm casing. I originally saw this cartridge in a paper about “hyper-velocity” discarding sabot ammunition.

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These pictures were taken from the combined storage of the Picatinny Arsenal and Aberdeen Proving Ground Museums. In this collection there are literally thousands of experimental items, mostly but not all US. It is quite possible that the items pictured may be the only remaining examples left, or that only a few were ever made in the first place. It is very possible that foreign technology was observed and a quick test piece was engineered to evaluate technology for potential development.

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As, Spaceinvader mentioned above, I agree that the second projectile does look a lot like the US, developed 90mm HVAP APDS made by, Remmington. I am not sure if that round had one or 2 driving bands, but it is extremely similar.

Jason
PS: I have a photo somewhere I am hoping I can locate.

I was able to find one source with the 90mm APDS. It appears in the book “ Hypervelocity guns and the control of gun erosion by Bush Vannevar & James Bryant”, on pages 556 & 567 atleast.

It’s designation seems to be “90-56-R13”.

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Rhys, well done!
It appears to be from this very series. The one depicted above just has what appears to be a steel bourrelet and is missing the lower rubber obturator (gas check).

I extracted the images from that publication.

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That’s totally the 90mm, HVAP, made by Remington, I was reffering to. Great job, Rhys!

Jason
PS: I know a, BOCN, member who bought the only known example that I have ever seen about 2 years ago. The story I was told was that a, Remington, official was using it as a door stop in his office before he sold it to a buddy of mine, who sold it to th, BOCN Member.

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Jason, do images exist?

I would be super interested to see a technical drawing of one of these, I would love to make a replica for my collection. Such an interesting design and has a nice “industrial” look to it.

Would also love to see if you have any pics Jason!

I know “that guy” Jason speaks of :)

My recollection is that of the photo above as confirmed after I found a “snap shot” from circa mid 1990’s.

I was told it was called a British “wall buster”

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That’s it, Pepper! I have the tech manual for this round on CD somewhere. It was developed by, Remington very early on. So Cool!

Jason

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Yes it was given me from from a fellow at the Remington Bridgeport works; little did I know…but it was traded and I was pleased with my booty so life goes on.

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Awesome, history on that projo, Pepper! Great, “Chain Of Custody,” legacy. Now, a EOD, Member has it in their collection. RARE, RARE, RARE Bird

Jason

Just found the CD that covers the 90mm Remington APDS projectile. I will look for and print the pages that detail this projo.

Jason

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Just printed and photographed the pages that concerned the, 90mm Remington APDS projectile. This was the very first, 90mm APDS ever made in the US. Very historic projectile. After going threw almost 600 pages in the CD, you would not believe the amount of research and physics that goes into these. Every aspect is studied. There must be hundreds of advanced degree, brainiacs working on the development of military ammunition and gun systems.

Jason

IMG_5394 IMG_5395 IMG_5396 IMG_5397 IMG_5398

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Below is a link to the full document:

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Thank you SO MUCH, Larry, for posting this link! Fantastic!

Jason

For those of the forum users who have downloaded the AD-221585 microfilmed version of the document, the link provided by LarryF264 points to a much better quality version.

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