ID of chinese army small arms


#1

I have found these photos of chinese army guns that i’d like to identify:

Is this a silenced submachine gun? Model and caliber?

Is this a shotgun or what? Model and caliber?


#2

The lower photo weapon doesn’t appear to be a shotgun to me. When I compare his finger dia. to the gun barrel dia. it seems too small for a 12 ga. Although it could well be other than 12 bore
However the magazine and receiver do appear very shotgun ‘like’.
Just a thought?


#3

The top weapon is hard to identify due to the angle at which the soldiers are holding their weapons. there are three Bullpup-style weapons - the Assault Rifle Type 95, in 5.8 x 42 mm, the Assualt Rifle Type 97 in 5.56 mm, and the Type 05 5.8 mm or Type JS (Jian She) 9 mm submachine guns. I cannot clearly see the shape of the trigger guard, which is different on the submachine gun than on the assault rifles, nor can I really tell the width and details of the magazine. In pictures, the Type 95 has a plastic magazine with a waffle pattern on it, while the Type 97 looks like an M16 aluminum magazine, with the curved vertical grooves on the side.

I will have to leave it up to those with better eyes to figure out which these are. The submachine gun is regularly supplied with a detachable silencer, but it is my understanding, perhaps wrong, that both of the rifles are “silencer friendly” as well.

I think the bottom weapon is definitely a shotgun, but don’t know the guage. China has a magazine feed, pump shotgun that is very much like a Mossberg 500 in appearance. I think I have some information on it, but most of my stuff on China is without an index, and it is hard to find individual information without going through donzens and dozens of pages.

Boy, the Chinese Army has come a long way since Korea, when no two soldiers had the same uniform or weapon. These are smart looking troops! Well equipped and their uniforms appear to be of very good quality.


#4

The shotgun on the bottom is just a Norinco Type 97 variant “Hawk” pump-action 12ga with detachable 5rd box magazine. That version also comes with a standard tubular magazine. http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh38-e.htm

The silenced SMG is a QCW-05 in 5.8x21 caliber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QCW-05

It should be noted that probably less than 5% of the Chinese military has access to these types of weapons.


#5

[quote=“DKConfiguration”]The shotgun on the bottom is just a Norinco Type 97 variant “Hawk” pump-action 12ga with detachable 5rd box magazine. That version also comes with a standard tubular magazine. http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh38-e.htm

The silenced SMG is a QCW-05 in 5.8x21 caliber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QCW-05

It should be noted that probably less than 5% of the Chinese military has access to these types of weapons.[/quote]

Thank you very much for the info. It seemed odd to me that whole uniformed units were outfitted with supressed weapons.


#6

It surprised me to see a whole unit armed with silenced weapons as well. However, between the uniforms and equipment (helmets, etc) and the fact that virtually every man is almost exactly the same height and build, I suspect this may be some sort of elite unit.

John Moss


#7

Since they are using strings to line up along them it looks much like a parade setup. Certainly the first row is a special selection by body heigth.


#8

The guys in the back rows look like they are about the same height as well.

John M.


#9

EOD,

there are 2.000.000 or so of young Chinese guys in uniform to chose from. That is more than what Europe can combine.


#10

[quote=“DKConfiguration”]
It should be noted that probably less than 5% of the Chinese military has access to these types of weapons.[/quote]
Do the other 95% still use Chinese made AK Variants, or have they been replaced by something more modern?


#11

[quote=“Falcon”][quote=“DKConfiguration”]
It should be noted that probably less than 5% of the Chinese military has access to these types of weapons.[/quote]
Do the other 95% still use Chinese made AK Variants, or have they been replaced by something more modern?[/quote]

I think it depends much on how far they got with the replacement process. For us as outsiders it might be hard to tell.


#12

[quote=“Falcon”]
Do the other 95% still use Chinese made AK Variants, or have they been replaced by something more modern?[/quote]

They have also this bullpup assault rifle. Probably in 5,45 caliber, I guess.


#13

Schneider, there is no 5.45x39 in China. This one is in 5.8x42.


#14

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking that China adopted all the Warsaw Pact/Soviet stuff. Is the 5,8 x 42 obtainable outside China?


#15

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking that China adopted all the Warsaw Pact/Soviet stuff. Is the 5,8 x 42 obtainable outside China?[/quote]

There was a time when the Chinese split with the Soviets (in the 1960s ?) and they seem to have increased their own developments steadily since then. Also China never has been part of the Warsaw Pact. It would be incorrect to say that China is just copying Soviet designs (or any other). Today there is plenty of military cooperation between China and Russia again.


#16

The 5.8mm rounds are (so far) unique to China. The export version of the QBZ 95 bullpup assault rifle in 5.8x42 is the QBZ 97 in 5.56x45.

The pic below (from the article on assault rifles and their ammo on my website) shows current service and experimental rounds. The 5.8x42 looks quite impressive, but in fact ballistics are no better than the 5.56x45 due to the lower chamber pressure. There is also a heavy ball variant for the GPMG/sniper rifle, which is slightly longer overall.

from left to right: 7.62x54R, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x51, 5.56x45, 5.8x42, 6.8x43 Rem SPC, 6.5x38 Grendel, earlier versions of LSAT caseless and LSAT plastic-cased.


#17

There would also appear to be a CWS cased cartridge in 5.8x42mm

I have examples (unprimed with empty bullet jackets) headstamped 61 02, 61 03 and 61 04. I also have CWS draw pieces headstamped 945 05 and 945 06.

Dave S


#18

i have a keychain made of 5.8x42 round with CWS case headstamped 945 03

I’ve also seen keychains with 5.8x21 rounds but still have no luck hunting one down