ID on 2 cartridges


#1

Doing my daily browsing on GB.

[b]S.A. BALL
303 Inch
RIMLESS

7.62 SHORT
7.62x39 SPORT[/b]

What are they ???

Ray


#2

There was a rimless .303 experimental. TonyE has posted about it recently, I would say about a month or so back.

There was also a short lived target variation of the .303 called the .303 magnum that was rimless. It lasted about a decade around the 20s and 30s but never caught on.


#3

A quick search for “.303 Rimless” will bring up that thread.

Although the round did not go very far immediately after WWI, the basic case was used in the mid 1930s as the starting point for a number of the .256, .276, .303 and 7.92mm rimless designs for the possible new rifle and round based on converting the huge numbers of Pattern 14 rifles in store.

However, just as happened to the original P.13 and .276 round, WW2 intervened and the whole project was scrapped.

With regard to the .303 magnum, whilst it was relatively short lived in terms of the number of years it was used as a match rifle cartridge at Bisley, it was immensly influential in the design of the .303 Mark VIIIz ball round for the Vickers. The military watched what was happening in the world of competetive rifle shooting and took note.

There was an excellent article on the .303 magnum by roger Mundy in a recent IAA Journal.

Regards
TonyE


#4

GB?


#5

Gun Broker gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt … =122984271


#6

Thanks. I guess I’m a little slow this morning - I should have been able to figure that out.


#7

Thanks guys, and Guy.

Did I pass up somerthing special with the 303s ?? Maybe they’re still there. But I don’t collect stuff like that so you guys can have a go at them.

What about the 7.62x39 SHORT/SPORT ???

Ray


#8

Ray,

I think the term “short” has been used to distinguish the 7.62x39mm from the 7.62x54r. Not a different caliber or cartridge, just a synonym.

I also think the “sport” term is just something the seller got off of the box label.

I have a very early Lapua box of 7.62x39mm FMJ rounds with both “7.62 SHORT” and “7.62x39mm SPORT” on the front of the box. It is just typical Finn military issue FMJ ammo. Perhaps this box is the item you saw on GB?

D.D.


#9

Here’s a potential answer to the IDing of the .303 Rimless round. Sure are close.
ammo-one.com/7-7JapaneseCartridges.html


#10

AKMS

Yep, that sounds like the exact same box. The box had both SHORT and SPORT on it. No photo of the cartridges.

Rick

I never thought of the 7.7 Jap. I’ll bet you are right. Again, the guy didn’t show photos of the cartridges.

Thanks guys,

Ray


#11

I think they are .303 “Lewis” Semi-Rim rounds.

Not sure who the guy is, but he has done some rather “creative” pricing on some of his other auctions for shooting ammo I see at most area gun shows. I would be shocked to see if he even gets any bids on 75% of what he’s selling. I think even some of the show rip-off artists I see regularly would be embarassed to charge what he’s asking.


#12

Ray,

That is the same box I have. The rounds inside are headstamped “VPT 69”.

I bought mine at an online auction for $15.00 a year or two ago…

I think this ammo came into the US in the early 1970’s to feed the few legal war trophy AK-47 and SKS rifles that came home from Vietnam.

AKMS


#13

The 7.62x39 is starting to make inroads into the non military rifle world and is slowly becoming a popular hunting round in Europe.
Last summer I borrowed a little Baikal single shot rifle in 7.62x39 from the NRA at Bisley. The idea was for my son to try it out on the range for the day to see how he got on with it.
It was good as a carry all day and fire it once type rifle but too light for getting through the sort of quantity of ammo we put through it.
ti
It would be a good calibre for a short stroke bolt action rifle and plenty powerful enough for most deer or boar.

I don’t know but I wonder if the term “sport” when applied to 7.62x39 means to set it aside from milspec.


#14

Now, many days later, only one of this guy’s many auctions has a single bid. I wonder if he gets the message. I sent him a few questions, he hasn’t answered me yet.;)