ID on 7.92 cartridge please


#1

I have a supposed dummy round found among my friend Greg’s stuff after he died. He wasn’t a collector or a reloader but he was a bit of a squirrel.

The round is apparantly 7.92 and has on the headstamp n’n except that the ’ is actually a small 7 and the second n has a curved right leg. No problem so far. That headstamp is (I think) from the former Yugoslavia, possiby Croatia I believe and I have seen it before.

The headstamp also has 5-56 and SS and thats where I have a problem. The 5-56 could mean May 56 but I wouldn’t have guessed at it being that old, I may be wrong. I am surprised they would include the month on ammunition from this part of the world. Obviously it has nothing to do with 5.56mm

The SS I am at a loss with although I am aware of the significance of S on German ammunition.

There are a couple of other small puzzles. It has a silver fired primer which looks non standard but there is absolutely no flattening of the primer what so ever which you would expect from a round of this pressure.

It looks like a reload but there is no hint of a resizer line and there is no slight ring around the case just ahead of the extractor groove where the chamber finishes. The next though is that its a misfire and it might well be but it doesn’t give off any noise when shaken.

Any help would be appreciated, I cannot post a picture but if this thread gets tricky I could possibly arrange for someone else to do it for me.

Vince


#2

Sounds like an Israeli SS-type ball round. Search for some Hebrew letters and I think you will see that you have Mem, Yud, Tof on your headstamp.


#3

If this is the headstamp your are referring to, the case was made in Israel. The SS denotes the type of bullet the case was originaly loaded with. A 198 grain heavy ball loading. The 5-56, as you say, is for May 1956.


#4

Those letters, right to left, are Mem, Yud, and Tof.


#5

Thank you for that, The power of the forum to find answers never ceases to amaze me.

Vince


#6

Jon - you didn’t tell us what those letters stand for - Hebrew and English. I mean the words they represent.


#7

M=Mifal (factory), Y=Yitzur (producer, for), T=Tachmoshet (ammunition).


#8

Jon C.

Thanks a bunch for clearing up a question I


#9

Changes it a bit. The letter on the left is Nun, which stands for Neshek (weapon). The change in headstamp from Neshek to Tachmoshet probably signals the movement of the ammo facility from Tel Aviv to Natzeret.


#10

Thanks again Jon.
That is very interesting and useful information for me.


#11

A question about the flat-based bullet used before the sS type was adopted in Israel: those I have pulled or have notes on are actually 179 grains weight. Was there a true 154 gr. S bullet manufactured in Israel? JG


#12

J. Gil.

I just looked in my database and I notice I have the 1951 dated one listed as 154.3 grain bullet, square flake powder, cartridge weight of 404.3 grains and boxer primer.

I also have a 1953 dated round listed as 178.9 gain bullet, ball powder, cartridge weight of 413.8 grains and boxer primer.

Those are the only two in my collection I have the bullet weights on. I never noticed the difference before.

When I get some time I will pull down some duplicates and post what I come up with.


#13

Phil: Very interesting; would be glad to hear what you turn up. I have only a couple and will re-check total weights. JG


#14

I didn’t have time to try and find dupes of Israeli 7.9 - don’t have many as I don’t keep many dupes just for headstamps - but I did weigh the 20 earliest Israeli 7.9 x 57 cartridges in my collection:

All weights in grains:

IX-49 (404.1)
II-50 (401.5)
II-50 (404.3) (Bunter differences)
III-50 (405.5)

All of the above have brass primer cups. The following all have nickeled cups:

I-51 (405.9)
VI-51 (408.8)
XI-51 (403.6)
XI-51 (405.9) (Bunter differences)
VI-52 (411.9)
I-53 (412.3
II-53 (413.6)
III-53 (408.6)
IV-53 (406.6)
V-53 (411.8)
VI-53 (410.3)
VII-53 (416.6)
VIII-53 (414.7)
VIII-53 (414.0) (bunter differences)
IX-53 (412.3
X-53 (this round was found to be defanged - no powder. Bullet was pulled and weighed - 178.6 grains)

There is approximately 24 grains difference between the type S ball (154 grains nominally) and the Israeli bullet that seems to be used, at first intermittently, from about June 1952 on, and perhaps completely (until the adoption of type x.S. ball) from June 1953 on. I could have kept going in dates - there are plenty more of them, but it didn’t seem to have any point.

It is interesting that the bullet weights appear to be about 24 grains apart but the overall cartridge weights show only 12-1/2 grains difference at the extremes, most of them with less difference than that. It would seem that if someone has the dupes, and the time, a close examination of primed-case weight, powder-charge weight differences (and perhaps close examination of the powder types) and bullet-weight different could use more exploration.

By the way, the primer cup differences shown above were only for a matter of interest, and I believe have little or nothing to do with the question of overall cartridge weight and bullet weight.


#15

I would like to thank all who contributed to this thread. I knew even less than I imagined I did; now, perhaps, I’m in the foothills of having an inkling of the topic. JG


#16

John
Can you tell me where the change over from MYN to MYT occurs in the headstamps on your cartridges? I don’t have any between M.Y.N. I 52 and M.Y.T. V 53.


#17

Phil,

My highest ball round with M.Y.N. headstamp is VI-52 and my lowest ball round with M.Y.T. is 1-53. It is the same in dummy rounds. However, in blanks loaded with a yellow, pointed wood projectile, my only M.Y.N. headstamp is from 51 while my earliest M.Y.T. round is IX-52.

So, we have narrowed the break down a little more. It falls between VI-52 and IX-52. It is possible with the headstamp change-over that no lots were made in July and August 1952, but then, that is just conjecture. My dates are certainly not complete, although I have well over 100 Israeli 7.92 x 57s.

It is interesting that all my late 1952 rounds are yellow-wood bullet blanks - IX, X, XI and XII-52. The blanks change twice - from yellow to purple pointed bullet, and then to purple sem-RN bullet. I also have a couple of rose-crimped grenade blanks.

Yellow bullet: early - XII-51 late - II-54
Purple pointed bullet: early - XI-54 late - VI-56 (diff. headstamp syle)
Purple semi-point: VI-56 (only date I have seen)

If you want more info on the Israeli headstamp changes, let me know and I will check them out as I can.