Id Unknown N°7


#1

And another one:

Inside neck dia: 5.50mm -.216"
Neck dia: 6.45mm - .254"
Neck L: 7.00mm - .275"
Shoulder dia: 10.85mm - .427
Base dia: 11.41mm - .449"
Rim dia: 13.14mm - .517"
Case L: 55.87mm - 2.200"

5.5mm unknown - DWM382 ???

Pascal



#2

Pascal, that is a wonderful case! Although I can’t provide any information confirming if it should be DWM case number 382, I also believe that is highly probable. Rim and head diameter match those of the 6.5 x 54 R Beaumont-Mauser case number 392B, but I don’t know if they are related. There are some other 5,45 / 5,5 mm German experimental cartridges but these were developed in 1901 and based on a rimless case. I have never read about a Mieg experimental in this caliber but maybe others can provide some information.

Assuming that this is a number 382 case and it was actually made in 1891, it would indicate that the original case for the 7 x 57 mm Mauser (number 380) was also assigned in that same year and not in 1892, as commonly accepted (is not illustrated in DM-K april 1891 catalog).


#3

Fede, I agree with your assessment that this could well be DWM case number 382. There are no other c5.5mm cases in the 1890-1892. These cases are fairly well documented with only a couple of gaps in the sequences. So it hard to imagine it being any other case# range - except perhaps case#386 : 5MM MAUSER “G” RIFLE ?

However regarding dates, it is interesting to note that case#375 : 6.5X57 MIEG M91 is known with a similar “D.M 18 KRLSR. 92” hs whereas if the 5.5mm case has the later case#382, it also has an earlier date hs (1891). I don’t think we can preclude the possibility that the 5.5mm was developed from earlier cases and was still designed c1892. Note the 6.5 x 54 R Beaumont-Mauser case number 392B has been identified with a “BMF 1892” hs.

Here is my latest analysis on the DWM 1891-1892 cases if it helps (corrections gladly accepted):

-------------DM-K Catalog No2 April 1891----------
368 : 6.5mm Italian (DWM casebook) Mauser Trials 1890 ??
(6.5X52 MANNLICHER-CARCANO ?? Predecessor)
368A : 6.5mm Italian Mauser
368B : 6.5mm Italian Mauser
369 : 7.65MM BEAUMONT M91
370 : 9MM DANISH REV M91
371 : 303 BRITISH
372 : 8MM MIEG PISTOL
373 : 11X50R BEAUMONT
#374 : 11.3MM ROUMANIAN REV
*375 : 6.5X57 MIEG M91 M14
375A : 6.5MM LE PERSONNE M15
376 : 6.6MM MAUSER REV
377 : 7.65MM ITALIAN RIFLE
#378 : 7.62X54R RUSSIAN
378A : 7.62X54R STRENGTHENED
378B : 7.62X54R "S"
378C : 7.62X54R PRACTICE
378D : 7.62X54R "S"
378E : 7.62X54R "S"
378F : 7.62X54R
379 : 30 KRAG JORGENSEN EXPT
379A : 30 KRAG JORGENSEN EXPT
379B : 30 KRAG JORGENSEN EXPT
379C : 30-40 KRAG M92
#379D : 30-03 SPRINGFIELD
#379E : 30-06 SPRINGFIELD
------------ c1892 ---------------------
380 : 7X57 MAUSER
380A : 7X57 MAUSER
380B : 7X57 KRUPP
380C : 7X57 LOWE
380D : 7X57 SPAIN
380E : 7X57 MAUSER
380F : 7X57 (strengthened)
380G : 7X57 CHILE
#380H : 7X57R M93A M47
#380J : 7X57R M93B M48
380K : 7X57 UTENDOERFFER
#380L : 7X57 M93 M46
#380M : 7X57 M93S M46
380N : 7.1X57 CHINA (7.3X57)
380O : 7X57 M93 PRACTICE
380P : 7X57 M93 PRACTICE
380Q : 7X58 (lengthened torpedo bullet)
380R : 7X57 M93 PRACTICE
381 : 11MM SPANISH
382 : 5.5MM UNKNOWN
383 : 5.43MM LOUIS MATTIS REV
384 : 11MM ROHDE REV
385 : 8X58R KRAG JORGENSEN (1892) SC65
#385A : 8X58R KRAG JORGENSEN SC65
385B : 8X58R KRAG JORGENSEN
386 : 5MM MAUSER “G” RIFLE
387 : 7MM LOTZ REV
#388 : 7.5X54 SWISS M90
388A : 7.5X54 SWISS M90S
388B : 7.5X54 SWISS M90S
388C : 7.5X54 SWISS M90S
#388D : 7.5X54 SWISS M08
389 : UNKNOWN
390 : 7.4MM GRUSON REV
391 : 5.9MM KROHN RIFLE
392 : 6.55MM MAUSER GSP28
392A : 6.68X54R MAUSER GSP28
392B : 6.55X54R MAUSER (BMF 1892) GSP28
393 : 9.55X56 M43
393A : 9.55X50.4R CRESTA M42
------------ c1893 ---------------------
#394 : 6.5X53R ROMANIAN MANNLICHER A94


#4

It also could be related to Austria because they tried a lot of different 5.5 mm cartridges between 1889 and 1899.


#5

There was also an unknown DWM 382B case that was meant to be loaded with two different bullets designated Kal. 5,5 mm spitze Form “N” (5,65+0,5 x 31,25+0,25 mm) and Kal. 5,5 mm spitze form mit Loch. The first one is described as Versuch P.F. Rottweil.


#6

Yes, that’s quite likely Fede - it certainly looks like some of them. Analysing those early experimental small-calibre military Roth cases is quite a task, I don’t envy Josef Mötz the task.

With no case drawings or additional notes, we may never know for sure about that DM-K case ?

Where did that info re the DWM case #382B case come form ?


#7

Brad, that case number come from the DWM bullet book.

A few additional notes:

  • The first 5.5 mm caliber bullet is number 139 described as D.M. Kal. 5,5 mm and should be from early 1891 (unknown case)
  • The next ones are numbers 197 and 197A described as Kal. 5,5 mm and Kal. 5,5 mm P. F. Rottweil, respectively (unknown cases). The following bullets descriptions includes three different 6 mm P. F. Rottweil bullets and several models for an Italian 6,65 mm Mieg pistol.
  • There is also a number 206 bullet described as Kal. 5,5 mm Mauser (unknown case). The two previous ones are the 205 (Kal. 5 mm Mauser) and 204 (Kal. 6,55 mm Beaumont-Mauser). All of these should be from 1892.

It seems impossible to reach any positive conclusion when so many companies where involved with these 5.5 mm bullets.


#8

Are there any other cases known with this style headstamp?
D.M. , year and Karlsruhe fully spelled?


#9

Pascal, that is a DM-K military style headstamp that was used for a very short period of time and the 1891 date is very scarce and found in few calibers. Sometime during 1892 the 18 D. M. 92 KARLSRUHE headstamp was replaced by 18 D. M. 92 K.. The 18 D.M. 92 KRLSR. headstamp may be placed between those two but I don’t really have any supporting evidence as it is also a very scarce headstamp. All of these can be found in 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser.


D.M. 8 x 57 M88 round
#10

Yes i have the D M 18 K 92 in 7.65x54 , have seen KRLSR before but never KARLSRUHE.
Thanks you both for the interresting replies.
Pascal.