Identification help needed, PLEASE HELP



You do realise RTB has been gone from the cartridge scene for a very long time?

So do you have a question?

Do you have the date of the Buttweiler Auction and is # 2284 the lot number?

The last Buttweiler Auction Catalog that I have is Vol XII, Number 3, March 20, 1999. None of the Buttweiler catalogs that I have, which is 27, have a lot number in excess of the 900 range.

What are the dimensions of the bullet, and cartridge, and can you add a picture of the head stamp?

The .32 WCF [Winchester Center Fire] is more commonly known simply as the .32-20 Winchester, and less commony known as the .32-20 Marlin. It is a short bottleneck cartridge.

My eyes cannot tell me for certain from your pictures if it is a bottleneck or not… but it looks to be.

Jack, the Krutzsch round was made by W.R.A.Co. for I believe, a lawsuit. See Shuey

It looks much like a .32 WCF & as soon as we have a reply about what his question(s) is / are, perhaps we can answer?

Pete, it sounds familiar, but I cannot recall- or find- a reference to ‘Krutzsch’ at this time.

Do you think these would simply be dummy rounds for display/evidence during the trial?

From Volume VI, No. 3, p. 27. There’s a larger write up there as well. July, 1989

1 Like

Thank you, Does anyone know a current value. I have a dummy and a live round.

Do you have Curtis gun rounds or Krutzsch rounds?

Rich, thanks! The Bannerman reference kicked in a little bit of a memory. Does anyone know what the Patent Infringment WAS?

From same page:

1 Like

Tanks for all the help. Both live round and dummy will be placed up for auction in June on my website.

Flechettecollector, Please post on the Buy Sell Forum, what website your talking about.
I think the loaded round is just a Winchester FMJ load. (If I’m wrong, someone will correct me.) Please post a good picture of the headstamps, and note if any paperwork from the Buttweiler auction comes with the Krutzsch Dummy. Also, as Frank asked, what Buttweiler auction had lot #2284? Thanks, Dan

Website is These are from the Buttweiller auction #2284 .I have the envelope.

1 Like

flechettecollector, whomever you are? I’ve tried your links a couple of times & get nothing but a “not found” message.

Buttwieller’s auctions were NEVER numbered with 4 digits. As stated above his lots were at the most 900 or so. His catalogs were classified as Volume and Number ie: Volume 2 Number 3 Lot 130.

What your looking at is most likely a number for the consignor, which tells you nothing, not even what, if any, auction it might have been in. You need more than a 4 digit numbered label to prove these are from a RTB auction. Both Vic E. & I use the same type of numbering system to keep track of consignors lots, and I’d imagine lots of other sales do too.

1 Like

RichB, thanks for the history, much appreciated, (that is not what I thought I remembered).

They were from the Chicago Shows

So your saying it was a Chicago show auction?

I seriously doubt lots in those sale were over 200 lots That would have taken Cal into the next day or if #2284 into the next week. A great guy, but he sure took his time hammering a lot down.

1 Like