Hi first time on the forum , would like some information about some old brass army bullets with the headstamp S67 S 8 15. if possible thanks
on your headstamp i pretty sur that is a 7.92x57 mauser
‘S’ …designated brass with a 67% copper alloy
8 15…8th month of 1915
S…Königliches Munitionsfabrik, Spandau, Spandau, Germany.
Ref: Geremy M. Chubbuck (7.9x57 Mauser Ammunition for The Collector)
Sam3 already explained the headstamp. This is the standard cartridge (S Patrone) used by Germany in WW1.
German standard brass had 72 percent copper and going to 67 percent was done because of the copper shortage.
Thanks for all the information, excellent forum
To jpeelen, the original German S67 case, from 1905 to 1920s WAS 67/33, and the Germans only changed to
the S* case in the 1920s…72/28, for reasons of case
Springback after firing especially in HRF MGs.
Nothing to do with Copper or Zinc availability in WWI…in fact the Germans developed the E case ( eiserne, Iron) in 1917, to save on both strategic metals…
On further inspection of the bullet clip i found a headstamp with a C instead of S67.
Also my son who has suddenly gained an interest found two other headstamps
L1OA1 30 K 67
L2A2 RG 66
Again, its a bit of guesswork just working from headstamps but these two should be a crimped British .30-06 blank cartridge. This was made by Kynoch in 1967.
The second will be a 7.62 x 51mm NATO ball cartridge made by Radway Green in 1966. I expect the headstamp also includes the NATO symbol?
L10A1 is a blank cartridge I believe and K should be Kynoch? Year is 1967.
L2A2 is standard ball, Radway Green, 1966.
what you say regarding the alloy is correct for the M 71/84 black powder case.
The case alloy for Patrone 88 through Patrone S was brass with 72 percent copper. (Documents in the Bavarian State Archives) Please consider that it would not have been necessary to change “S” to “S67” in the headstamp if that lower quality brass had already been standard.
Thanks or the info only need to know what the C stands for in the C S 7 15
I agree with Jochem, the standardized alloy since 1888 until the change to 67/33 with the “S-Hülse” was always 72/28. A minor exception were the pre-production lots of the “Hülse 88”, that used 66/34.
C stands for the state ammunition factory at Kassel, spelled Cassel at the time.
As to the 88 Einheit ( Universal) shell, I made no comment…I simply stated that the S67 shell was introduced with the New SpitzGeshoss loading for the 98 rifle in 1903-1905.
There was no change to save Copper during the WWI, except for the Eiserne cases. ?SE?
The S* (72/28) was introduced for the “S” CASE in the 20s, for the extraction qualities required for HRoF MGs
I may not express myself clearly enough, some times, but I am quite sure of my postings in this matter.
No mention of Hulse 88 design or metal alloy,
S case design with S67 composition 1903–1920s
S case design with S* composition 1920s to 1945.
S case design with SE Iron ( actually very low carbon steel, SAE1010 approx) composition 1917-18
I don’t know witch manuals you have read, but what you write is not correct.
The case was always 72% copper until March-May 1915. They reduce the amount of copper to 67%, showed on the head stamp as S67.
An interesting plant was Dresden. I think they did not know how to make the right head stamp.
The head stamp in March and April was “S Z” means case for “S” round with higher part of Zink. In May they made the cases with the right head stamp
The copper was needed to make steel cases. That’s why it called copper washed steel case.
After WW1 the first cartridge in 7,9 made in 1921was an Ex round.
With “s” stamped cartridges they started in November 1923.
Until 1926 almost all brass used was found in WW1 ammunitions factories
They start making in 1926 new brass for ammunition with a 72% case. Showed on the case by the S*.
The reason was not shooting with an MG. The sS ball round was made for shooting with MG’s. since 1924 also lots of sS rounds were made for this purpose.
DocAV, the introduction of the original “S case” and the “S case” made of 67/33 alloy are two different things. The former was introduced in 1903 and was made of 72/28 alloy, while the latter variant was introduced in 1915 and was made of 67/33 alloy.
Simple solution, metallurgically analyse a pre-WWI S
Case to settle the matter.
I will retract my statements publically if the analysis proves your assertions.