Identify these .30 cal (7.62mm) AP bullets?


#1

Hello fellow cartridge collectors!

This is my first post, and I shall begin with a bit of challenge. Hope you guys solve this puzzle for me. Maybe it’s just that I haven’t seen enough, but I’m stumped on this one.

I have a line on some AP bullets in .30 cal for reloading - see below, but I can’t find any info that points to the designation of them. The seller says they are about 155gr in weight and are pulled from British ammo. I thought the British used the M61 (T29) AP projectiles which have a more rounded nose and 2 cannelures on the body.

These don’t look like any AP I’ve seen. They are not US .30 APM2 which has a flat base, they are not the NATO M61s as described above, and lastly I don’t think they are US M59 or the 7.62 Hirtenberger because the distance between cannelure and the start of the boat tail taper is shorter.

Any ideas? Is it possible that these are “fake” AP, as in, just ball rounds with tips painted black?


#2

Almost look like tracer bases. Have you checked diameter? Are they .308, or possibly .311?


#3

These appear to be standard 7.62x54r LPS ( mild steel core) ball projectiles with a black paint applied to the tip; not real AP IMO. JH


#4

This bullet is M61 150 gr 7.62 X 51 Nato (.30 - 308 Winch)

The M2 AP is 166 gr 7.62 X 63 (30-06 springfield - .30)

Cordially

Michel
Ballistic & weapons Eng. (Liege-Belgium)


#5

Sorry FE de errata
with 155 grains This is Bullet 7.62 X 54R LPS for Dragunov Sniper rifle or Moisin Nagant rifle

Michel


#6

Hi Michel, welcome to the forum. I hope you don’t mind me asking a question; are you the same Mr. Baikrich that designed the .30 Court and .303 Sporting cartridges? Regards, Fede.


#7

Ah, I had a hunch that it was 7.62x54R…

The seller is quite dodgy on giving any sort of real answers. It was advertised as .30 AP M2 at first. I said it has a boat tail… He then said it was British pulls, around 155gr. Another suspicious answer.

So I’m guessing the real answer is that they’re not .308 / 7.62 caliber but 7.62x54R projectiles disguising.

I guess… buyer beware?


#8

On a separate note, what do you guys think of the .308 dia API projectiles that are floating around places like gunbroker?

For example, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486916759

Are they just 155gr 7.62x54R B-32 APIs resized to .308 diameter?

What about these flat based APIs? Could they be real M14 API projectiles?
http://www.cdvs.us/30-06-Api-projectiles-Flat-base-100-projectile-pack-P1055.aspx


#9

Sorry I speak only French ans Spanish, but with Google translator is not a problem

Yes fede I am the inventor of 30 M1 Short - 303 sporting 5/6 BMP .224 (Baikrich Magnum Parabellum) 5.45 BMP .221 - 5mm BMP .204 - 4.5 BMP .177 to replace the venerable 9mm Luger with capacity to defeat the body armor level IIIA NIJ

And with capacity to penetred 48 layers of Kevlar + 3mm Steel

Best regards

Michel


#10

Michel, good to know. If possible, it would be great if you can share some interesting facts about these cartridges with us. Regards, Fede.


#11

ES posible pero no se como subir fotos en IAA mi english es rudimentario

Saludos

Michel


#12

www.baikrich-technology.com


#13

linkedin.com/profile/previe … ary-button


#14

I remember a friend in France who reloaded a good quantity of 7,62x51 NATO with these Russian LPS bullets for shooting, some years ago, without any re-sizing…
As far as I remember (the guy was a Superior Officer in the French Gendarmerie Nationale), he told me that the results were absolutely satisfactory on the range…

Phil


#15

Definately 7.62x54r LPS projectiles with a fake black tip. The remnants of a case mouth seal is a good clue to their origin. I’ve pulled and reloaded many of these projectiles, so their appearance is something I’m familiar with. Another clue is that the tip color is too new looking. Most pulled down surplus shows more chipping and wear in this area…

AKMS


#16

[quote=“sleepypiggly”]On a separate note, what do you guys think of the .308 dia API projectiles that are floating around places like gunbroker?

For example, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486916759

Are they just 155gr 7.62x54R B-32 APIs resized to .308 diameter?

What about these flat based APIs? Could they be real M14 API projectiles?
http://www.cdvs.us/30-06-Api-projectiles-Flat-base-100-projectile-pack-P1055.aspx[/quote]

Any time that you buy loose bullets you are at the mercy of the seller. They may be exactly as he describes them or they could be something completely different.

Cal .30 API T15 and M14 was made for only a short time and not in very large quantities so cartridges are very hard to find. Loose bullets are even more scarce.

Those shown in the Gun Broker listing certainly appear to be API but I don’t think they are US made T15 or M14. Maybe foreign made? At $4 each they had better be good!

The flat base CDVS bullets are probably FN made M14A1. You could call and ask them, assuming they know the difference. They probably don’t.

haak48 can probably better advise you about the GB bullets.

Ray


#17

Thanks for the explanation. It seems absurd to pull the FN rounds and then sell the projectiles for cheaper. The loaded FN API rounds were worth about $5/rd. CMP was selling them just last year.

The 155gr stuff I really think are cleaned and repainted B-32s, perhaps resized, perhaps not.


#18

The sale of the FN API by the CMP was more accurately a feeding frenzy rather than a sale. At the very same time that some guys were paying upwards of $5 per round on the CMP auctions, CDVS was selling both FN and US made M14A1 for a dollar a round. Go figure? It looks like CDVS may have adjusted their prices a little since then. ;-)

Ray


#19

I think true feeding frenzy was on the AP ammo CMP had in Jan of 2014. They had linked 250rd cans of .30cal APM2 for $100 + 12 shipping per can and unlinked 200rd cans of APM2 for $125 + 12 shipping.

CMP had placed them in the estore with little description, and BEFORE they had formally put on the description on what the ammo was in its forums, it was already SOLD OUT.

Heck, at those prices I would be feeding on that frenzy too. Missed out.


#20

[quote=“AKMS”]Definately 7.62x54r LPS projectiles with a fake black tip. The remnants of a case mouth seal is a good clue to their origin. I’ve pulled and reloaded many of these projectiles, so their appearance is something I’m familiar with. Another clue is that the tip color is too new looking. Most pulled down surplus shows more chipping and wear in this area…

AKMS[/quote]

I was going to post, questioning the red sealant that is wrong for anything US/NATO.