I got a proverbial cigar box of cartridges and a few caught my eye right off the bat. I think I know what they are but would like a quick and dirty confirmation ID, if possible. No photos yet although I can provide same. I believe some of these have been discussed on the Forum before but I’m too busy (lazy) to search for the info.

  1. 7.62x51 pre NATO, FA52, extended case w/rose petal crimp. (Grenade??)

  2. 7.62x51 pre NATO, FA 53, brass case tin plated, GM bullet non magnetic.

  3. 7.62x51, FA 66, no NATO mark, GM magnetic with White tip.

  4. UMC PROTECTOR, tiny little thing, 30 caliber?, CL .365, RN Lead bullet.

  5. WRA CO 32-44 S&W, .975" CL, one with single ball seated deep, other with single ball? seated flush with case mouth. Gallery and Target??


Forgot one thing. many of the junk rounds were lacquered at one time and the lacquer on most is chipped and in a sorry state. As such they are next to useless as trading stock. Is there a general consensus as to a quick and easy way to remove old lacquer by dipping or soaking in something. It seems that stuff is harder than a politicians heart.



Hi, Ray…

1,2,3…No idea but the 308 guys will surely have answers…

#4…UMC PROTECTOR was made for the little Chicago Palm Pistol and other similar arms, WRACo also made the cartridge

#5…Yes, Gallery with ball down and Target with ball at mouth

Any Krags in the cigar box ??



Re: #3; I THINK you’ve got an example of the “low recoil” round that was fielded for training purposes at the same time the M198 Duplex was being used; this cartridge uses only the TOP bullet of the pair you’d normally see loaded into the duplex round, and since it’s a lightweight plated steel projectile, it would produce about HALF the felt recoil of a standard 7.62 ball load. I’ve got one marked as a “low recoil” round, only mine has FA 66 and the NATO acceptance cross.


Regarding the lacquer removal, drop them in a jar of denatured alcohol. If that proves unproductive, try acetone. Leave them in for a few minutes, pull them out with a pair of needle nose pliers and dry them off with an old towel. A tooth brush dipped in the solvent does wonders on cleaning out the headstamp and primer annulus. I’ll even give you the benefit of a couple of things I’ve learned through trial and error over the years - if you want to keep the wife from getting ticked at you while you are doing this, do it in the workshop rather than on the coffee table watching TV, and make sure the towel you use is an old one.


Guy - boy, did you hit it right. I was working with something on our coffee table years and years ago - we had little or no money at the time - and I spilled something on our coffee table that took half of the finish off before I could get it up. I seem to recall it was Hoppe’s No. 9, but I could be wrong - it has been 40 years. We couldn’t afford to have it refinished, or buy a new one, and I didn’t know crap about refinishing wood (still don’t). It stayed that way for ten years.

If I repeated the performance on our current coffee table - somewhat nicer than what we had then - I would either be in the divorce court or have important parts of my body missing when I woke up one morning.

Gosh, I guess this isn’t cartridge talk - well, I was cleaning cartridge residue out of a gun on the coffee table when it happened. Does that count?


Ray–I think that #2 is a HIGH PRESURE TEST, T71, FAT1E3 CASE. It should have a red PA.

#3 is BALL, LOW RECOIL, XM256E1. It was developed for use by either the Laosian or Cambodians in Vietnam in the M14 rifle. Due to their small size they could not handle the full loads. The whole story of this round was told on the old forum.


Thanks to all.

No Randy, no Krags. But I thought of you first.

That white tipped 7.62x51 does weigh a lot less than a standard 66 NATO Ball. I should have done that first.

I’ll have to look up the Chicago Palm Pistol. It seems to me that shooting someone with it would just make the bad guy REALLY mad.


According to Suydam’s CF Revolver Cartridges, the charge in the .32 Protector cartridge is the same as the .22 short, 4 grains of black powder, making the Protector pistol a formidable weapon.


Interesting about the low reoil round. I was told many years ago that it was developed for use in the 7.62 “mini-gun” because the recoil at 6,000 RPM was significant enough to move the helicopter platform off target when fired.



AKMS–While in Vietnam I loaded thousands of rounds in Mini-guns and all of it was standard ball and tracer. The mini-gun as well as the 20mm M61 gatling guns have recoil buffers built into the guns. They actually transfered very little recoil to the gunship itself.


If (and only if) the acetone does not work you can move up to MEK, let soak a few minutes and use some bronze wool for any tough spots. But if you do use MEK do it outside wear gloves and DON"T breath the fumes.

Coffee table damage? Ha! Not half as bad as when my father fiberglassed a motorcycle gas tank to the kitchen table.


Besides the two hs detailed in this thread, I have four aluminum cased 7.62x51 cartidges with white tipped bullets. The hs’s are (+) FA 66, FA 66 MATCH, FA and the last has no hs. The bullet style is the same as found in the brass cased cartridges.

Dave S


The Low Recoil was developed as a potential answer to the problem of muzzle climb on the M14 when fired full auto and - I have nothing but anecdotal comments to support me on this - because our smaller-framed ARVN allies had some difficulty with the recoil of the standard ball rounds.

Accuracy stunk and the M16 / 5.56 system was already widely in use, so no further work was done on it, as the muzzle climb was not an issue with our MGs.

The lighter bullet (low recoil) is also found in aluminum cases (as Dave notes) with a variety of finishes and some lacquered steel variations.

Dave -

NICE set of specimens - color me green.

The headstamp variations on the aluminum cases are purely experimental. There was an issue with the tensile strength of the cases in the head area. FA used bunters with increasing amounts of markings which they had at hand in an attempt to work harden this area. Lou Behling advised that these came from the FA proof room.