Imperial Russian Ammo WW1 era


#1

This box is IDed as coming from the European battlefields of WW1. I do not think that it ever left the USA. There were many Russian contracts which went under when the Czar fell. I think that this is one of them. Can anyone read this label?


#2

Nice box!

Here is translation

ЯЩ. №5850 box #5850
60 АЛЮМ. ТРУБ 60 pcs Aluminium tubes (i.e. fuses)
22 сек. 22 seconds
ДВ. ДЕЙСТ. Double action
ДЛЯ ??? ДМ For ??? inch
ПОЛ. ПУШ. Field Canon


#3

Does this help ?


#4

Thank you for the translation. Could you try these ?

It looks like this box is for the 22 P fuze.


#5

[quote=“treshkin”]Nice box!
ДЛЯ ??? ДМ For ??? inch
[/quote]

It says “for 3 inch”. Means for 76mm projectiles.


#6

And the Crate design has not changed in 100 years…I have similar design Pine crates, with similar Latches, from Modern Sporting 7,62x54R ammo; and the same crate without a latch (Nailed) is used for Spam-cans…same dovetailed corners, same runners top and bottom.

I suppose, if it ain’t broke, why fix it?.

Good info for Movie Set Dressing: Modern Russian/Chinese Ammo crates can be relabelled for W W I use by Re-enactors etc. and be correct.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services.


#7

That was always the classic Russian way. Make it simple,durable and plenty of it. Today, I don’t know.


#8

[quote=“EOD”][quote=“treshkin”]Nice box!
ДЛЯ ??? ДМ For ??? inch
[/quote]

It says “for 3 inch”. Means for 76mm projectiles.[/quote]

Thank you. Sharp eye and sharp mind.


#9

Why did Taft-Peirce think that they were making 21 second fuzes ?

This may well be the most stolen and recovered collector fuze in history. It was stolen and recovered twice. The most recent was when it was stolen in the burglary of my Ohio storage bay a couple of years ago. An Ohio collector bought it back for me at a local auction. He recovered 100 or so of my items at local auctions and gun shows. Many more still are missing but likely in the area of N.E. Ohio.


#10

There were several of these following the same design for several gun types and running/burning times with minor differences in appearance and size. It is also not necessarily the case that this fuze was ever made for Russia in qty.


#11

A watch maker from Canton Ohio was bought out and moved to Russia to make clockwork fuzes and watches. It was called Dueber Hampden. I have never been able to find one of the fuzes.

Dueber sold the company to Walter Vrettman in 1925. Vrettman went bankrupt in 1927 and sold all of the company’s equipment to Amtorg, a Russian purchasing company. Nearly 30 boxcars of machinery left Canton in 1931 with 21 former Dueber Hampden employees who contracted for one year to teach the Russians the craft of watchmaking. Conflicting information exists about the fate of the Russian enterprise, but Henry Fried, a horology professor at New York University, reported seeing Dueber-Hampden machinery being used in China in 1986.
Founded in 1930 under orders from Joseph Stalin, the First State Watch Factory (Russian: Первый Государственный Часовой Завод - 1ГЧЗ) was the first Serious Soviet watch and mechanical movement manufacturer. Via its USA-based trading company Amtorg, the Soviet government bought the defunct Ansonia Clock Company of Brooklyn, New York in 1929, and the Dueber-Hampden Watch Company of Canton, Ohio. It moved twenty-eight freight cars full of machinery and parts from the USA to Moscow in order to establish the factory. Twenty-one former Dueber-Hampden watchmakers, engravers and various other technicians helped to train the Russian workers in the art of watchmaking as part of the Soviet’s First Five-Year Plan. Interestingly, the movements of very-early products were still stamped “Dueber-Hampden, Canton, Ohio, USA” (examples of these watches are very collectible today). In 1935 the factory was named after the murdered Soviet official Sergei Kirov.

As the Germans closed in on Moscow in 1941, the factory was hurriedly evacuated to Zlatoust (Russian: Златоу́ст). By 1943 the Germans were in retreat, and the factory moved back to Moscow, adopting the “First Moscow Watch Factory” name (Russian: Первый Московский Часовой Завод - 1МЧЗ).


#12

Here some little on the subject, maybe it will answer your questions:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poljot


#13

Thank you. I have seen that. I have not seen anything about the manufacture of fuzes. The Russian watches based upon the D-H works are well known. I am looking for evidence that they actually made clockwork fuzes for artillery and bombs.


#14

The Russian entries in the internet and other lists I have do not mention any fuzes (just some ammunition parts), would have expected fuzes too but to my surprise no details on that.
Also remember that the Russians had basically no clockwork fuzes for artillery before 1945. The 1st they had after 1945 was the captured German Zt.Z. S/30 which were officially adopted (!) and then directly copied to 100% (including the German thread M50x3 which was not used on a single USSR projectile) as the TM-30 (likely on German Machinery they took away from East Germany). Later on the fuze got adapted to Russian thread and incorporated the prior separate detonator-adapter. Then designated VM-30 - which is well known today. Also the clockwork was used in many other fuzes which got adapted to various calibers and purposes and is still in use today.

The TM-30 as being the first mechanical time fuze made in the USSR then was made by TOChMASh, Vladimir Plant for Pecision Machine Building in Vladimir. So it seems that the watch factory was not into fuzes at all - not even impact fuzes etc. (again to my own surprise).


#15

Hard to understand. Soviet intel was well aware of German and other clockwork fuzes. Stalin doesn’t strike me as someone who cares if his people have watches.


#16

No doubt they knew about but as said above. It just seems they thought they can manage with powder delay time fuzes and as history has proven Stalin did not care for mechanical time fuzes before or during the war either. Not to forget that Russia was not all that well industrially developed by that time - literally everything was in short supply there and resources had to be used in the most urgent matters (seems time fuzes were not urgent enough). The USSR and now Russia is still using powder delay time fuzes like the T-7 or D-1U and maybe others I do not remember right now.

Wrist watches were even in the 1950’s in short supply and very expensive in the USSR. As the East Germans used to say; "the Russian deliberated us from Hitler …and our wrist watches).
Actually British troops did the same in their zone in Northern Germany.

Here a famous image you will recognize. Look at the Russian officer, he has 2 wrist watches - certainly not for having “Moscow-time” and “Berlin-time”…
The official images published in Soviet propaganda had the 2nd watch removed then.
spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotos … 923-2.html


#17

Very interesting,thank you. Amazing how sensitive dictatorships can be.