(Inert) 7.9x57 Platzpatrone......help needed


#1

Is there any way to differentiate between a Platzpatrone 27 and a Platzpatrone 33 other than the bullet paper - wood difference?
I have one example that looks and feels to be made of wood. The bullet feels quite hard and is seated strongly in the case. There is also some evidence of wood grain. I believe this is a Platzpatrone 33.

P25 (Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbritzen G.m.b.H, Werk Sebaldushof, Sebaldushof).
VII (Steel Bochumer Verein fur Gusstahlfabrikation, Bochum).
Date: 1940

The second example has a smoother and softer bullet that has developed a groove and is somewhat loose. There is no visible grain in the bullet that I can discern.
Is this a Platzpatrone 27?

P442 (Zieh-und Stanswerk G.m.b.H., Werk Schleusingen/Thüringen).
Date: 1939

Both are inert and therefore; both bullets have, at some time, been pulled.

Is there a date when the manufacture of Platzpatrone 27 ended and Platzpatrone 33 began?

Any help in settling the identification would be greatly appreciated.

Sam3


#2

In my opinion, both of those cartridges are PP33 loads.
Remember, the headstamp does not necessarily have much to
do with these blanks. It only identifies the case maker. They
were often loaded on reject cases, stored up and combined with
other case makers for the purpose of making blanks.

I assume that the ending date for production of the PP27 is 1933.
The ogive of the mock bullet in the PP27 is quite different.

John Moss


#3

Hi John,
Many thanks for your reply and background information.

Would it be correct to assume that the bullet in the P442 example is; ‘mock?’

If it is not original, I’m happy to just have the case.
Regards,
Sam3


#4

I am not so familiar what the word „mock“means, but I bereave to understand not original.
Well the P442 is an original loaded blank 33. You can recognise it because there are no primer crimps to hold the primer.

A “Platzpatrone 27” looks different. There are two models. with and without wax.

Platz%2027


#5

Willem, “mock” can also mean things like “optical duplicate” or the like. Not seldomly used as the German “Geschossnachbildung” for example.
No need to be not original in this sense.


#6

Dutch and Sam3 - When I use the term “mock bullet,” it
is not in the sense of indicating that the bullet is not original
to the case. I would just say that in the same words used here.

Perhaps I should not have used that term at all; for me it indicates
that the cartridge has, in place of an actual projectile, something
representing a projectile in order to give the overall cartridge the
proper length for feeding. It could be a paper or wood bullet, as in
the case of the two PP types, 27 and 33, or in some types of blanks
(and dummies) the case it self is extended in length, generally in a
reduced diameter from the faux case mouth, which is in that instance
simply a shoulder, to form the profile of a bullet. Again, this is generally
done to give it a proper overall length and shape for proper feeding in
repeating weapon configurations. Otherwise, if that were not necessary,
or at the least helpful, to the feeding function of the weapon, all blanks
could simply have the normal case neck crimped over an over-powder
wad or sealed with a rosebud-type crimp.

I, like Dutch, absolutely accept the cartridges in questions as, in their current
form, proper and “original” Platzpatronen, and most certainly would not pull
out the wood “bullets.”

Sorry for making the confusion. I don’t know the word “mock” to indicate a
lack of originality. I guess a proper German word might be “ersatz,” although
not speaking German, I could be wrong in that.

John Moss


#7

Hi John, Dutch & EOD,
Many thanks for all your replies and consideration…. I’m happy that it’s a PP33.

Apologies for questioning, but; as somewhat of a beginner, I’m never quite sure of what I’ve acquired………“Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you.”

Sam3


#8

@Sam3; you showed a P25 Platzpatrone 33 with a head stamp who is missing in my collection.
So much about beginner.

You have more than two different head stamps; so you are a collector!!!
And keep in mind, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.