Info Needed On Israeli APFSDS rounds under 105mm


#1

I recently received a really nice Israeli, APFSDS sub-projectile dart that I am trying to ID. I compared it to my inert, IMI, 105MM M111 APFSDS projectile and the dart is significantly smaller. So far, I have been unable to ID it but think it may be for a 100mm or 90mm round? It does not match up to anything shown in a 2014 edition of, Jane’s Ammunition and it is driving me crazy :-) Any help would be super appreciated.

Jason


#2

Jason, IMI made a 90 mm APFSDS round for the M41 gun mounted in the M48A3 Patton tank. According to its specifications, it should weight around 2.6 Kg. Regards, Fede.


#3

Far from my comfort zone, but I think IMI also made APFSDS rounds in 100mm and 60mm.
Jason, you’re supposed to be the one telling us all about APFSDS rounds!


#4

Thanks, Fede!
I am going to weigh it tomorrow at a friends house. I packed my scale :-)

Jon,
I wish I knew. This one is driving me crazy :-) I have the Israeli 60mm inert example and this dart is much larger, but smaller then 105. I am pretty sure it belongs to a 90 or 100mm. Looking forward to weighing it and hope it matches up to, Fede’s guess :-)

Jason


#5

Jon, and 125mm too as they are covering the range of calibers of Russian tank guns.
And of course the 120mm Rheinmetall cartridge.


#6

Jason, it looks like a 90 mm APFSDS penetrator to me because it is of the same Israeli design found in the 105 mm M111 (DM23) and 60 mm rounds made by IMI since the early 80’s. The 100 mm made by IMI for the D-10 gun would be the M309, which is a Romanian-Israeli design introduced in the late 1990’s, but it has a completely different construction and measures 584 mm (see picture below). For comparison, the 105 mm M111 penetrator has a total length of 417 mm, and the 90 mm measures only 385 mm. Regards, Fede.


#7

Below is small picture from a c. 1982 catalog, which was when IMI was making only three APFSDS rounds of their design: 105, 90 and 60 mm. It is the only one I have in which all three rounds can be compared in size.


#8

THANK YOU FEDE!

I measured the dart and it is indeed 385mm in length. YAY! I think you ID’d it as the IMI 90mm. I still need to weigh it. Does the IMI 90mm have a type designation ID?

Jason
PS: Thank you big time for your help and for the catalog picture.


#9

Jason, you are welcome. I’m glad that at least one of the measurements match, as catalogs are not always accurate. As far as I know this round never received any designation. Regards, Fede.


#10

Very grateful for you help, Fede!

I just weighed it and it matches up to the specs you gave me in both size and weight. Do you happen to have any additional photos of this round and or information on what case and primer it used?

Again, thanks BIG TIME! It is always a thrill when you can ID an unknown.

Jason


#11

Stoked the forum is back up and running! A big thanks to all involved in fixing it.

I located 2 of the correct IMI sabot petals for this sub-projectile and it is 100% confirmed 90mm :-)

Jason