Info needed USN ASP Mark 2 "cartridge case"


#1

Looking for any info about the case that shows in the picture.
Diameter is 43.7mm and total 82.2mm high.


Regards 451kr.


#2

Markings indicate it is U.S. Navy from February 1944, and the cartridge is the ASP Mark 2.

Probably a “cartridge actuated device” and maybe Pepper knows more about it.

My guess would be that it was used as part of mine sweeping gear, or to separate auxiliary fuel tanks from aircraft, or submarine underwater sound signals (“decoy” canisters) or maybe related to catapults. It is too early for any sort of ejection seat.


#3

Out of my league (a tad large) (buy very cool… if it is some special purpose gizmo)…but no firing mode (primer?)…and a threaded top cap ?..couple it be someone’s tooling for a non ammo application (but then too, where or why would there be a non primed casing in use ?)

I am all ears


#4

I’m almost certain that the cartridge case with the tapered mouth and no primer is a WW II U.S.N. depth-charge-launching round. I had one of these and did a little research on it a few years back. As I understand it, the cartridge case was filled with black powder propellant, and the tapered mouth was sealed over with paper or cardboard. The cartridge was inserted, mouth down, into the launcher mounted on the ship’s deck. The launcher itself ignited the propellant, and the cartridge, mounted under a 400-pound or so depth charge, acted as a rocket with the tapered mouth being a sort of rocket nozzle.

I think the other matching piece shown was to be screwed onto a depth charge bracket and placed on the cartridge’s base in the launcher, not over its mouth. Some depth charges were simply rolled off the ship’s stern (back end) from racks, while the same type depth charges could be fitted with a bracket to be launched in a pattern around the target sub.


#5

well…well…well…that’s “special purpose”…anyone want to sell or trade me one of those critters ?


#6

Many yrs. ago (1958) I was in a group from the 77th Special Forces Gp.Airborne selected to attend the U.S.Naval Underwater Swimmwrs School in Key West Fla.While in the school,I visited a small Naval Ord. Museum on the Naval Base and recall seeing one of these,and thought it was the most unusuall Shell I had ever seen. About all that I can recall,is as Mel said, it had something to do with launching a Depth Charge.
Perhaps "ShotMeister"who post quite regularly on the Forum may know where there is one with description at “Patriot Point”,or you could try the “British Ordnance Collectors Net”.
Charles.J.Wells (Jack)
SGM.USA. Ret.


#7

Based on this item’s size and the “Y” and “K” guns use of 3" cartridges, I am thinking this may be the cartridge for the Mk 10 or Mk 11 “Hedgehog” type 7.2" depth charge projector. The projectiles for the “hedgehog” only weighed 65 lbs. compared to the 400 lb. projectiles of the “K” guns.

The detail isn’t great, but you can see how the threaded case housed the primer. [edited to add:] Note it indicates a “cartridge case base” and a “cartridge case body”.

Here is a rack full on the Destroyer Escort USS Slater docked in Albany, NY.

Dave

Edited to add photo and text.


#8

Wow…Navy Diving School ???

I can’t help but thing of the drama…Men of Honor the 2000 film, (Robert De Niro and Cuba Gooding, Jr) inspired by the true story of Master Chief Petty Officer Carl Brashear.

Although I know Jack is not a man of color, the movie was a powerful story about the first African-American Master Diver in the United States Navy. (albeit upsetting to me about our nations prejudices back then…not that they are all gone now…but a hellava a movie…in my humble opinion…considering its dramatic license to entertain us)

Thanks for your service Jack (& Mel)(& Slick Rick)(& Shotmeister)(& Lew)(& Pete)(&…pfew…)


#9

(&Ray)

And, I think DaveE found it. WAY TO GO, DAVE! (If you’re right)


#10

Many thanks for the information that you gave about this.
I understand that this together makes a rare piece, because the case will
be gone after ignite the depth charges ?

I googled on hedgehog and found only MARK10,11,15
The case mention MARK2 ???

Regards 451kr.


#11

451kr–I think the “Mk-2” applies only to the cartridge, not the Hedgehog device itself.


#12

451kr, the MK2 relates to the propelling cartridge only.

ooooooops, Ron was faster…


#13

The Navy “Hedgehog” depth charge projector is a spigot mortar, as is the British PIAT (Projector, Infantry, Anti-Tank).

The PIAT propelling cartridge is shown as our August 2006 Cartridge of the Month. Close comparison shows many similarities to the Navy Hedgehog, with a two piece “case” where the section without the primer remains in the tube of the projectile, while the “primer half” is expelled from the hollow tube of the projectile.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo06aug.htm

Note that the Hedgehog was electrically fired, and the projectiles were quite heavy, so in loading they needed the propellant cartridge to be very sturdy, so the large screw in primer was probably needed for that reason. THe tapered mating surfaces between the two pieces of the cartridge may have allowed for a bit of compression against the tip of the spigot to ensure good electrical contact would be made.

Interesting cartridge!


#14

[quote=“JohnS”]The Navy “Hedgehog” depth charge projector is a spigot mortar, as is the British PIAT (Projector, Infantry, Anti-Tank).

The PIAT propelling cartridge is shown as our August 2006 Cartridge of the Month. Close comparison shows many similarities to the Navy Hedgehog, with a two piece “case” where the section without the primer remains in the tube of the projectile, while the “primer half” is expelled from the hollow tube of the projectile.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo06aug.htm

Note that the Hedgehog was electrically fired, and the projectiles were quite heavy, so in loading they needed the propellant cartridge to be very sturdy, so the large screw in primer was probably needed for that reason. THe tapered mating surfaces between the two pieces of the cartridge may have allowed for a bit of compression against the tip of the spigot to ensure good electrical contact would be made.

Interesting cartridge![/quote]

I don’t know if the cartridge(s) in question were for the Hedgehog, it was before my time. However, both the PIAT and the Hedgehog were British designed spigot mortars. The hedgehog spigots were set up at different angles so that the bombs hit the water in an oval pattern. The bombs were fired in a ripple to spread the recoil loads. This was the first “ahead thrown” anti-submarine weapon in UK service and greatly improved the kills of U-Boats. The problem with depth charges is that the ship had to pass over the sub contact, having lost contact in the final closing phase, and this, added to the sink time of the charges meant a long delay since the last measurement of position. So the predicted and actual position of the U-Boat differed if the U-Boat altered course or speed. The ahead thrown weapons ensured that the sonar (ASDIC) plot was still live at the time of firing.

The Hedgehog was replaced by the Squid, firing a pattern of six 500 pound depth bombs to a range of about 300 yards and then the “Limbo” or Mortar Mark 10 which had a variable range up to 1000 yards.

The letters ASP could mean “Anti Submarine Projector”.

gravelbelly


#15

Drifting somewhat off-topic but on a related matter of interest - the spigot mortar is alive and well in the form of the Rheinmetall 51mm Fly-K system (the third firm to make this AFAIK). This differs in having a captive-piston system within the tail of each mortar bomb, so that the propellant gases are prevented from escaping. This means that the system produces no firing signature, and the firing spigot remains cool instead of making a nice IR target.