Info on 7.63mm Long Mannlicher Cartridge


#1

I understand the photo below illustrates a 7.63x32mm Long Mannlicher cartridge for a stocked pistol or carbine. The case in the photo seems to be 32mm long when compared to the shorter, 25mm case of the 7.63mm Mauser round.

I am interested in confirming the correct name for this cartridge and learning what weapon it was used in. Ideally, I’d like an image of the weapon.

I could have this all screwed up. If so please help me out here.


John Moss Photo

I am also looking for any information on a 7.63x40mm cartridge from 1895-1900 timeframe. The case head diameter would be 10mm and the overall cartridge length would be about 50mm. It would look like a stretched version of the 7.63mm Mauser cartridge.

Cheers,
Lew


#2

hello
the metric name is 7.63x32 mannlicher

the weapon appear the one on the picture but with light larger magazine

i19.servimg.com/u/f19/16/14/41/34/15298010.jpg


#3

Lew - there is a picture of a Mannlicher carbine, a little longer with a few different details than the picture referenced by Ammogun, in the ECRA issue 502 (it is 502-1, along with two different box labels. The box shown on the right is exactly like mine, and not noted is that it is a tin, no a paper box. Unlike my tin and its duplicate in the ECRA picture, the box to the left shows the caliber designation, which as used there is “Mannlicher-Selbstlade-Carabine Cal. 7.63 m/m.” I have spelled it as the label shows it, with “C” beginning the words “Carabine” and “Cal.” rather than “K.”

Quite frankly, the impression given by visual comparison of the photos from Ammogun and from ECRA (Josef Mötz) is that the magazines of both carbines are approximately the same length. I don’t know how that could be if both weapons are not chambered for the same cartridge, but then, my visual impression could be incorrect. It would take someone smarter than I (that shouldn’t be hard to find) that can actually measure the differing scales of both photographs to see if that is true or not.


#4

Lew and John, the designation “Patrone für den Mannlicher-Selbstlade-Carabine Cal. 7.63 m/m” is correct for this 7.63x32, but only if followed by the total length of the cartridge, which is 45 mm. Otherwise, it would be the same designation used by Keller & Cie. in “Carbine” labeled boxes for the 7.63x25 Mannlicher, and this is because both use exactly the same label (in the 7.63x32 label the quantity was modified and the writing “Verlängerte 45 m/m lg.” was added.) The other box variation simply says “Mannl. Karab. Patr. 45 m/m lang”.

A picture of the boxes and the carbine can also be found in the wonderful book “Vom Ursprung der Selbstladepistole” vol. 1 by Mötz and Schuy.

Regards,

Fede


#5

Fede - you are correct. It is odd that they chose to reflect the overall length of the cartridge, rather than the case length, on that box label. I should have looked in Josef’s fine book. The problem is, I am getting to old to lift it! :-)
Just a bad joke. It is easily among the top five or six books on pistol subjects ever compiled. I wait for Volume II.


#6

John, yes, it is very odd. In this regard, I knew about the box before I learned that it belonged to the 7.63x32 cartridge and for years I looked for information on a non-existent “7.63x45 Mannlicher” cartridge!


#7

Fortunately, Fede, I obtained one of the tin boxes for the 7.63 x 32 mm rounds, along with two of its original cartridges from Keller & Company. early in my collecting years. Otherwise, I might have done the same if all I had was a photo. Since that time, I was able to obtain the headstamp variant as well.

If I have time Monday, I will take headstamp scans of the two cartridges and have someone post them for me to round out this thread. I would photograph the box, but the label has been roughed up a little, and faded with time. I may try to scan it and see what I can do to make it legible. I do not have the other known box style for this caliber.


#8

I have long been intrigued by this cartridge and its carbine, but it is clear that very little information exists.

My notes on this round include the data that the bullet is 18.4 mm long rather than the 14.0 mm of the standard 25mm case loading, and that it weighed 7.7 g rather than 5.53 g (this is from measurement of an example). I have no information about the muzzle velocity although I suspect that, given the much heavier bullet, it wouldn’t have been very different from the 450 m/s of 25mm-cased ammo of the standard carbine.


#9

In the link below you can see pictures of the carbine chambered for this cartridge (Sturgess collection). The model designation used is not “official” but based on patent changes present in the mechanism. The caliber is also noted as “7.63x45mm”.

jamesdjulia.com/item/1289-369/

Regards,

Fede


#10

Fede, Thanks for the photo!

When was this cartridge introduced? Or when was this gun introduced?

Cheers,
Lew


#11

Lew, the carbine was first described by Sturgess as “Model 1897/02” but he later changed its designation to “Model 1901/04”. This was based on the fact that it incorporates features of the 1904 patent, the last design of Ferdinand Mannlicher before its death. In fact, this patent was filled in several countries by his wife Cecilia just a few days after he passed away.

Based solely on this information, it would be safe to assume that the cartridge was made around 1904.

Regards,

Fede