Information Request: 30 cal Silver Tip API


#1

Hey everyone, I hope you have all been well. I have some of these silver tip API projectiles and I will be loading them up in 30-06 to make a video for my youtube channel. I am seeking confirmation of the data below and any accurate information on their history and specifications. I would also seeking original cartridge specifications (intended velocity specifically) so that I can reproduce it for a more accurate depiction of its abilities against various targets.

As if that wasn’t enough I would also love to find photos of original cartridges, projectiles cutaway, and packaging (if it existed) that I could use in my video. This means that I would need permission from the photo copyright holder to use it. Credit will be given if desired.

I have been told that it is a T101E2 API, only made by Lake City in 1951. (Headstamp would have been LC/51)
INCENDIARY: 8.5 grains(±) of IM-11 (50% magnesium and 50% barium nitrate)
CORE: Molybendium steel
NAME: Cartridge, API, cal 30 (light rifle) with 10 caliber ogive bullet

Below are two images I took last year. One shows the effect of this round upon impact, the other shows a core I recovered. The core shown measures 1.175" in length and weighs 83.6 grains.

As always your help is much appreciated, there is only so much one can get from Google which, in my opinion, is dwarfed by the expertise and knowledge of IAA Forum members!


#2

Russian B-32 API sized to .308". Sold on the internet as USA manufacture. Pull-down bullets from 54r. Painted with silver tip code to pass off as USGI. JH


#3

And THAT is why I double check things. Now, these were not advertised as USGI, just as API.

Now, I’m curious, what was the giveaway? Everything probably… weight, boat tail, etc. :)


#4

The B-32 API sounds interesting, anyone know what the core is made of, and the incendiary mixture composition and amount? Would these have originally been for 7.62x54r?

Thanks again.


#5

I have a lot of these too, bought several years ago at a gun show in Missouri. They are measuring right at .308. I purchased loaded rounds with the head stamp HP 7.62x51 308. From the same purchase, I bought 500 projectiles. I do not have the pulled ones in front of me, but if I remember right, they look identical to the ones in Revolvers pictures.
I have shot them and they worked as advertised. Punch through steel with a small explosion. Revolver, I have seen your channel, and it is very informative. I enjoy the reloading segments, but of course the shooting videos are my favorite.

When I get home I will take a pulled projectile and check it against the pictures. But I think they look identical. They were also sold to me as USGI Lake City manufactured projectiles, with the silver painted tip. Thanks for the info guys.


#6

I have seen these listed quite a bit over the past few years on Gunbroker as .308, with things in the title like “Lake City”, “USGI”, etc. and have emailed a few sellers telling them of the error. They would either ignore me, or plead ignorance, but I think they all knew they had fraudulently described something. The bad thing is that they are copper-clad steel jacket, and I wouldn’t trust the re-sizing 100%, especially in an expensive .308 barrel. I also see some people selling actual U.S. .30 cal API from 30-06 loaded into .308, but this has the wrong bearing surface for some barrel twists and lengths, and isn’t exactly right either.


#7

They could be legitimate, although they probably are not. In 1969 Frankford Arsenal loaded both API and Incendiary bullets in LC (+) 69 cases for tests by the USAF. They used pulled Cal .30 bullets with a cut cannelure added for crimping to the correct length. Most of the rounds were shot up, so they are not too common. They can be faked, but most fakers are not aware of the correct headstamp, or they don’t care.

Ray


#8

This is great information, thanks.

Any chance that someone has specifications on the B-32 API, such as core type and incendiary mixture type?


#9

As Ray mentioned, most USGI API bullets have a machined cannelure. Also, most if not all USGI .30 cal. API use a GM, not a GMCS Jacket. Most of the later designs (except the T-15) are flat based and do not employ a boat-tail. The cannelure in the B-32 is not cut because the steel jacket would rust where the gilding metal is cut through to form the cannelure. The 54r cannelure is close to that of the .30 cal., but it is different enough to measure. The Russian incendiary mixtures are similar to those used world wide. Usually about 50% mag/alum and 50% barium nitrate. The Russian designs also use binding agents in their mixtures such as resins to promote loading ease during manufacturing. JH


#10

How thick was that steel you shot at? Those Russian API rounds look like hot s***.


#11

[quote=“RayMeketa”]
They could be legitimate, although they probably are not. In 1969 Frankford Arsenal loaded both API and Incendiary bullets in LC (+) 69 cases for tests by the USAF. They used pulled Cal .30 bullets with a cut cannelure added for crimping to the correct length. Most of the rounds were shot up, so they are not too common. They can be faked, but most fakers are not aware of the correct headstamp, or they don’t care.

Ray[/quote]

Here is the link to to the report:

dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Lo … =ADA022357

cheers
René


#12

One of each


#13

I know it is a long shot but I would like to find a small lot of Genuine USGI API to make a video with. I can work with as few as 5 but 20 would be ideal. Genuine live ammo is preferred for authentic results, but of course I can and will load projectiles myself… however then it might not truly replicate original specifications. Feel free to contact me. Much Appreciated.