Inquiry on 13 x 64B ctg


#1

I have received an inquiry about what appears to me from the description must be a 13 x 64B cartridge. I know nothing about these. The headstamp is “awt 43” which I found is from Silva Matallwarenfabrik, Werk Magdeburg, and the Projectile and primer are coded “nhr” which seems to be Rheinmetall. Reported are the remains of a black neck seal and a black primer seal with no other painted markings. the steel bullet is pointed and does not have any separate nose cap, nor does the Diameter of the bullet reduce about 1/3 of the way down from the tip like those shown in drawings in the Dutch book on case types.

I know this isn’t the best description, but it is all I have. Can someone identify the loading of this round?


#2

John, can you show us an image?


#3

EOD - unfortunately, I cannot. It is an outside inquiry that I need to answer. I was given a good description of it over the phone in response to my many questions that I asked about it based on the book I looked it up in - Volume two of that Dutch series on case types, but I could find no projectile that looked just like it. The tip shape is as shown in the book on a couple of rounds, but below the tip, after the sides of the projectile straighten out, there is no reduction of diameter until the sides reach some sort of larger diameter “belt” above the case mouth, about 3mm wide according to the description. The case was described as brass, which I thought was o,k. since I thought it was Luftwaffe ammunition, but a call back revealed it is the color of brass, but it is steel (magnetic). Must be BWS which I didn’t even know the German’s did. I asked if it wasn’t copper-colored or green lacquered but was told it looked just like brass even in areas that were not dirty and discolored, like the extractor groove.

I know a picture would help, but doubt that is forth-coming.


#4

John, I think so far that it is an AP-T or an AP-I. When a tracer compound is visible at the base it will be a tracer, when there is only a steel plug ind a shallow cavity it will be an API (with WP).

Cases in 13x64B are:

  • brass
  • laquered steel
  • brass washed steel
  • brass washed steel with additional brownish laquer
  • copper washed steel
  • copper plated steel

Brass washed or copper plated or washed steel cases were used in nearly all medium calibers. The copper plating was dropped in about 1940/41 again but the brass washing continued at least till 1944.


#5

Alex, how do you tell the difference between “copper plated” and “copper washed”? I have a few copper coloured ones in my collection but this is the first I read about a difference in the finishing technique.


#6

Will, “copper washed” is a galvanization of the case and every part is covered with copper. So the copper comes to the case only after it is finsihed physically.

“Copper plated” cases are made of a steel bar which got a layer of copper presswelded onto it and then rolled and pressed to a long steel strip which the cases are stamped from. During the drawing process the copper remains on both sides of the draw pieces and in the end when the case mouth is trimmed the regarding section is unplated as well as the extractor groove which usually is getting machined after the case is fully drawn. The extractor groove therefore is usually (not always) covered with some laquer.
So here the copper is on the raw material long before even the first draw is done to make a case of it.
For example most “copper colored” 7.62x39 (and many other) which permanently get designated as “CWS” are not because they are copper plated and not copper washed.

So it is pretty easy to tell apart these two.


#7

EOD - I have known for some time that some cartridge cases were copper-washed and some copper plated, but your explanation is by far the most succinct I have ever read or heard, and in fact, showed me that I had the whole thing wrong in my mind. I always wondered why some had the extractor groove coppered and other had it painted or lacquered, or plain steel. I did not know it was a quick way to tell the two processes apart, believing you had to be a metallurgical genius to differentiate between them on the finished product. Thank you. It is clear that much of the “copper-washed” steel ammunition we see is actually copper-plated!

You should be a teacher!


#8

Thank you for the flowers John!