Interesting 7.92 Mauser perhaps?

I believe i bought this around the fall of 2009, which is when I bought my Russian capture K98k. This ammo was sold to me as Yugo surplus. I completely forgot about it as the years went by… It ended up in the bottom of my ammo locker, where what little 7.92 ammo I have is. I decided I wanted to shoot my K98k over the weekend, for the first time!!! Hence why I finally opened the ammo up. I haven’t pulled a bullet, weighed powder, or velocity tested, but all can be done if anyone want to know that information. I think this is being sold on GunBroker at the moment… Also I believe the boxes are German?Head stamp reads * - 10 48 PS… That’s… star, dash, 10, 48, PS. Four things surprised me…

  1. It’s not yugo but Czech (I think.)
  2. Stripper clips on ammo are German (dou 44 bright shiny silver color.)
  3. Ammo was made in 1948… Pretty old.
  4. 100% of them fired.

After doing research online I think it’s of Czech origin. Maybe the German stripper clips were left over as I think dou 44 was a factory code for Czech republic. Pics to come.

So my biggest questions are… Is this czech? I see a mixture of German components and maybe a German box and German clips for sure? Maybe the Czechs used whatever they could post war? Bullet looks Czech to me but cases I don’t know…

If I see good, here is “PS” - Povázské Strojárne, Povázská Bystrica, Czechoslovakia.

Cases were made by the Czech (now Slovak) facatory that used the German dou code during WWII so the clips were undoubtedly left over WWII production by the same factory that made the ammo. The code “oer” is the code for the Bruder Munser paper factory in Arnau, (Sud).

Given the date, I suspect this was ammo supplied to Israel who was in a war for survival in 1948-1949. Czechoslovakia was a major supplier to them, including a postwar version of the Messerschmidt 109 that was produced in Czechoslovakia after the war.

Cheers,
Lew

Wow Lew, you blew my mind with that information! Thanks. I appreciate it.

Indeed PS on cartridge case. Thank you, anemon.

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As a little fun fact - the Israeli-used Messerschmitts had many issues which were made worse by incompetent pilots and ground crew lacking in experience!

Ole

The box was in fact made in the former Sudetenland in a town now called Hostinne (acute accent on the ‘e’), so it too is in a sense of Czech origin. Jack

It’s hard to make a military over night. I’m getting old and figured I’d shoot this K98k before the recoil is too much for me… Even .303 British at this point the recoil is pushing it for me, 5 shots and I’m done. At least it makes target practice cheap!!! Recoil with this 7.92 ammo wasn’t too bad, stout for sure, definitely harsher than 303 British. I mainly practice with .223 Remington these days in bolt action and semi auto rifles. Pretty flat shooter out to 250-300 yards. Thanks for your reply.

Not to mention that the Czechs supplied Israel with the 109 version call “Mezek (Mule)” for its rough handling characteristics. They used a substitute engine (can’t recall the designation) that made the plane tough to take off, fly, and land. And for what it’s worth, most of Israel’s first fighter pilots were flying vets of the USAAF, RAF, RCAF, and the Soviet AF…not a bunch I would label as “incompetent”.

Just for the record: the cartridge is not a Mauser design, but developed by German (or Prussian to be exact) state arsenals a decade before the Mauser Mod. 98 was designed. 7.92 is the caliber designation chosen in Czechoslovakia after WW1. The Germans called the caliber 7.9 mm.
The nickel finished bullets are frequently encountered with early post-WW2 Czechoslovak production. They have a non-hardened steel core. Beware of corrosive primers.

P.S. As a shooter, why not try 6.5 mm Swedish if low recoil is a consideration.

Or SKS, no recoil !!!

Jon, that wass the Avia S-199 (comprising of plenty of original Me 109 parts):

Maybe not to confuse “just Pilots” who are able to fly almost any type of aircraft (back then) with a briefing on a certain type with a technical ground crew which is a whole different story.
After all the S-199 was a totally differen aircraft than what the ground crews were used to, had to know and learn everything and had to be able to implement a for them completely new system.
I assume back then all Pilots were pilots before but ground crews were most likely a mix of any imaginable profession which then was “adjusted” to the needs.

Maybe far fetched but that reminds me of the story of the “Germanized” Starfighter F-105G (G for Germany).
Accidental losses in Germany were extremely high (about 1/4 of all F-105G crashed).
Besides technical factors going back to the aircraft not being really fit for European conditions (weather) it was found that a lot problems originated from the ground crews (which here were highly trained before and no amateurs). Only after plenty training and more and stricter regulations losses went down to a more acceptable level.

Thanks for the information JPeelen. I typically say 8mm Mauser, even though I know it’s not a Mauser design… I do this because it’s what I’ve heard all of my life. Seems that Americans say 8mm Mauser and the rest of the world refers to the cartridge as it’s correct military designation… 7.92mm , 7.9mm or 7.92x57 etc…

As for recoil I’ve developed a load with my 7mm Spanish Mauser. I typically use 140 grain soft point at about 2350-2360 fps… Now that’s a soft shooter… 7mm Mauser is one of two cartridges I load for… I do wish I was able to find 7mm or .284 caliber fmj projectiles, might even be cheaper to reload with that…

I’m very happy with my IMI 69 grain match in 5.56mm. Those fly pretty fast out of a 20 inch rifle. Very accurate factory ammo.
Thank again JPeelen. I do appreciate your knowledge. Do you shoot 6.5x55 regularly?

I have one!!! It’s a Norinco commercial model… bought it in 1991. It was both of my boys favorite rifle while they were growing up. I don’t want to sound like a snob, excuse me if I do but I just enjoy bolt action rifles more. I think the sks is much more accurate than people give them credit for. I had mine dialed in at 300 yards back in the day when I did a bunch of shooting at that distance… For a rifle produced for combat it’s more than adequate in terms of accuracy at 300 yards or less. Mines all original, still has the spike bayonet. I like to keep all my surplus type rifles in original condition. It doesn’t get shot much anymore unfortunately… I typically shoot my colt a2 model with a 1/7 twist if I want to shoot a semi auto… the gun will go to one of the kids someday, if they want it… Or a grandkid… If no one wants it they can sell it for cash haha.

Alex, all true, but the Avia was essentially just a Messerschmitt with a Junkers-Jumo in place of the original (and much more effective) Daimler-Benz DB 605.

No, I regularly shoot 7.9 mm (called 8x57IS in CIP countries), mostly to learn more about strengths and limitations of this cartridge. Either modern Sellier & Bellot factory ammunition or my own reloads. The original RWS Cineshot was also very good.
Apart from that I have a knack for shooting the odd cartridge out like 8 mm Lebel or 7.35 Carcano.
If I were into competitive shooting with military calibers, 6.5x55 would indeed be my choice. Many overlook that its ballistics are better than .308 Winchester Match loads. And it is very pleasant to shoot.

Jon: The problem with the Jumo wasn’t that it was a bad engine but rather that it was geared for use in a bomber. It spun the prop more slowly relative to crankshaft speed than the DB which was fine when it was swinging a large diameter He 111 propeller.

With the paddle bladed (but stubby) prop used on the Czech 109 it wasn’t efficient and (I haven’t read this but it’s likely) the torque effect would have been even more of a handful than was the original DB engine and its correct prop. Jack

Yes, but where did the ground crews get their expertise from when they just came from a doozen of courntries before and basically nobody being familiar with German aviation technology?