Interesting 9mm boxes-Thoughts Wanted


#1

Recently I posted some strange 9mm cartridges that came from the estate of a local collector who recently passed away. Yesterday, I had an opportunity to help unload a storage locker he kept and look over the ammo in it. There were some good items like a DWM C04 German Navy 16rd box dated 7 Oct 1910, and a very early box of Peters HP cartridges and other very interesting rounds. Quite a few of the boxes were filled with modern rounds, apparently to help them hold their shape. The DWM box had one original cartridge-headstamped DWM K 9 10, and 15 modern Canadian cartridges.

The boxes I’d appreciate opinions on are:


The label reads

12 ctg. P-35
Firing Pin Test

And in a square at the bottom DOMINION ARSENAL, QUE.

In the box are four “9 MM 44” cases with snapped primers and a small hole in the side with a burned or corrosion area around the hole. The fifth round is identical, but the primer isn’t snapped.


This box was sealed and when I opened it, there were 36 rounds of Musgrave 9mmP with red pa and headstamped O 9mm 8.


There were two packs of these, the opened one was filled with Wolf steel case ammunition. When I opened the sealed one the ammunition was headstamped 9X19 FMSF 05 87.


These labels are on the opposite ends of a box that looks like a German 15 round 7.9 box, but somewhat deeper. The box was empty. It is interesting to me since it indicates 115gr XM882 loads, but all the XM882 loads I know of are 124gr bullets. My FC 82 weighs 197gr oaw and my WCC 84 is 193gr oaw. Both appear to be 124gr loads.


This box was open and filled with Czech cartridges with 1949 dates-apparently to hold the shape of the box.

Your opinions/ observations are requested.

Cheers,
Lew


#2

The top box must be from the time Canada was evaluating the John Inglis production of the Hi-power P-35.
My gun club has an 1944 Inglis Hi-power in our collection, courtesy of the SOE. We’re rather proud of it :-)
The bottom ones are interesting since they show that Luxembourg had -and still has btw- a thriving firearms industry, though it is not something the local press admits easily.
Soren


#3

Soren, That would sure fit, but the ammo in the box was made no earlier than the late 1940, definitely after WWII on a contract for the CIA. I think the name changed from Dominion Arsenal sometime after WWII, but I don’t have a good date. Does anyone know???

I believe it became Dominion Arsenal Division of Canadian Arsenals Ltd (CAL) in 1947 which was before this “9 MM 41” ammunition was produced!

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Lew, these are very interesting and intriguing boxes. I don’t know who repacked the FMSF rounds but surely wasn’t Argentina.


#5

The big question is, since the Luxemburg box says that the ammunition was made there, and since Lew believes himself that the Czech ammo was not original to the box (repack), is there any known 9 mm para (or for that matter, and other pistol caliber ammunition) know which a Luxemburg headstamp???!!!


#6

My French is poor at best but my computer is pretty smart. I think the label says:

for Pistol Browning G.P.
factory for submachine guns Sola
Société Luxembourgeoise d ’ Arms S.A…

I don’t think that the label actually says they made the ammunition, perhaps only boxed there. Sola made the Vigeron machine pistol from 1954-1957 and is located in Ettelbruck. From what I can find from 1957 they made machines for rubber and plastic and then other machines. No indication ever of ammo.

The I don’t see how Czech 9mm ammo could be original for the box but all I know for sure is that that was what was in there when I found the box! I also don’t know what Sola would be doing with ammo for a Browning GP pistol. Lots of unanswered questions here!

I don’t know of any ammo produced in Luxembourg, but maybe someone else does.

Cheers,
Lew


#7

Lew - your interpretation is probably right. I always think of “Manufacture” in the sense of a verb and the word for a factory as “Fabrique” in French, but “Manufacture” aside from meaning “to manufacture” also means "factory, mill, etc.: I likely interpreted it incorrectly. I only know French if the words are basically the aeme as in Spanish, Italian or English. By and large the language is a mystery to me.

Regarding use for the FN GP Pistol, that is a pistol commonly used in Belgium, and I would think Luxemburg also. It has actuall been used at one time or another in many countries in Europe, even West Germany when they first rearmed.


#8

In the ‘Browning High Power Automatic Pistol’, published by Collector Grade, there is mention on p167 of an FN memo dated 4th of October, 1958 that includes Luxembourg as being amongst the principle countries using the newest model HP as their standard adopted firearm.

As the HP design wasn’t changed between the extensive modifications made in 1950 and the 1958 date of the memo, the pistol could have been adopted anytime after 1950 … or before, if Luxembourg had made a purchase of the earlier model. The source is silent about that.

Peter

PS Thinking about it, I believe that from 1945 until about 1950 Luxembourg used military equipment supplied by Britain.


#9

Nice exotic boxes.

I like the South African one. Almost Dutch text on the label ‘Vervaardig in Suid Afrika’ (manufactured in South Africa).


#10

If the cartridge described by Lew as being with the South African package represents the original contents of the packet, then the “Made in South Africa” is a spurious statement. The cartridges were made by Hirtenberg, in Austria. It is possible that they were delivered from Austria in Sterile packaging, and that they were either repacked in RSA or the markings added to the sterile Austrian boxes.