Interesting ad

General Ammunition Discussion
#1

Interesting advertisements from 1893

A) First we discover Beaugrand-Netré is the successor of E.Lecomte

Then we discover their ammo for short range reductor tubes of all caibers:

  1. 4 different charges with black powder (see picture).
    N°1 is to shoot up to 25 meters
    N°2 is to shoot up to 40 meters
    N°3 is to shoot up to 65 meters
    N4 is up to shoot to 100 meters°
  2. round lead bullet
    3)pointed constricted lead bullets (see picture “comprimée)
  3. wadd cutter constricted lead bullet (see picture “comprimée molettée”)”

Then we see they have ammo for the new short range adaptor device for Gras riffle.
The only charge available (N°3) uses smokeless powder and the the bullet is wadd cutter constricted lead bullet.

Also ammo for two other guns : french reglementary revolver n°1 and Smith & Wesson(this one using a special bullet)

They also sell short range adaptors for Gras riffle :

  1. in brass
  2. in brass and steel
  3. all steel

And short range adaptors in brass for french reglementary revolver with their ctges

They sell 6 mm flobert ctges with round bullet,
And 6 mm Bosquette ctges with pointed bullet with 3 different designs:
EL (this is for E.Lecomte) (see picture)
P (I don’t know, I don’t have time to seach in my files) (see picture)
BN (this is for Beaugrand Netre)which is the most accurate (see picture)
For each of these 6 mm ctges (Flobert and bosquette) you can choose the diameter (N°1 for new guns) and N°2 (for used guns with a wider chamber)

Last thing : they can manufacture any kind of constricted lead bullet with an accuracy of 1/1000 of mm

B) An add for Henri Rychner in Aarau in switzerland;
They mnufacture cases, primers, lead bullets and reloading tools in 7.5 mm for Martini carbines

C) Last advertisement : Why not to take a small pill of cocaine if you have a throat ache ??
(PS : not being an VIP of this forum, I hope this post will not deleted due to this joke!
Some people have indeed right to criticize, some cannot even ask an current affairs question !)

#2

JP
Great advertisment.
Thanks for posting and sharing a very interesting piece of history.
Bob Ruebel

#3

Hi Bob,

I didn’t know old CF ctges or old RF ctges were of interest for you !
JP
PS : you didn’t reply my e mail

#4

JP,

Interesting old advertisement. I’m having a little problem reading it all from my computer screen (my monitor is old and my French isn’t to good anyway). Could you e-mail me a copy?

Any idea as to the headstamps?

Thanks

Paul

#5

This information has been known for a while:

Ernest Louis Lecomte took over from Paul Karcher of Paris in the c1870-1880 period and used an “E.L” hs (known on nearly all the Karcher primed cartridges)

Lecomte’s business was taken over by Adolphe Nétré c1875-1880 who used an “A.N” hs.

Sometime c1880-1890 Adolphe Nétré joined with a “Beaugrand” to form Beaugrand & Nétré who used a “B.N.” hs.

#6

Yes, in the 1800s ( up to 1907 or so in the USA about the same time in Europe)
Cocaine was used in a lot of “Patent” medicines. The Pills described in the advert. contain Aconite ( a natural product, actually Poisonous), Sodium Bi-Borate, and Chlorhydrate of Cocaine…all with “anaestethic” properties.

The quantities are so small, that one would have to take large numbers of the pills to get “High”.

The Anaesthetic feature of C. was still used in Naso-Pharyngeal Surgery after it was banned as a “Narcotic” drug in the first decade of the 1900s, and that has been its only medicinal use since then.

“Coca-Cola” initially used an extract of Coca Leaf back in the 1800s, and this was also deleted from the formulation in 1907. One must remember that Coca- Cola was invented by a pharmacist back in the 1880s, in Atlanta, USA.

Regards,
Doc AV

#7

[quote=“WBD”]This information has been known for a while:

.[/quote]

Of course.

But first, it is not known by everybody, therefore there is some interest I think to give it again here.
Second, to know something is good (despite in this case there is no problem, the info given to you by Mister Leveau is good and accurate, as ever !), to see a proof is always better.
Third, because of this add you have some info allowing you to upgrade the next edition to your book.

Now, regarding the Rf ctges (I couldn’t pass on the CF ones and talk only about the Rf ones), except one or to guy I gave the info already, I doubt all the other Rf collectors knew the 6 mm bosquette ctges were made with two different bullet diameters.
(in fact there are 3 different diameters).

JP

#8

[quote]First we discover Beaugrand-Netré is the successor of E.Lecomte
[/quote]

JPG - The advert is great and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

I am just pointing out that this information has already been “discovered” so please don’t claim that you have found out something previously unknown, especially when you know that “Mister Leveau” has already published such info.

#9

[quote=“WBD”][quote]First we discover Beaugrand-Netré is the successor of E.Lecomte
[/quote]

JPG - The advert is great and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

I am just pointing out that this information has already been “discovered” so please don’t claim that you have found out something previously unknown, especially when you know that “Mister Leveau” has already published such info.[/quote]

Excuse me, you are right: “discover” in english has not the same meaning as “decouvrir” in french;
The good term would be : to find out

jp

#10

I am back on the Beaugrand Netré advertisement.

The first one is till April 1893

The second one is starting in may 1893.

This give us the exact date of introduction of the new short range adaptor.
(I am following their ad week by week on a period of 5 years)

Now, here is something I discovered (and not found out). In french we call that a “scoop”.

It is a nice Center Fire Flobert ctge, dated from 1852.
The only ctge made by Flobert. (He never made any Rim Fire ctge, only subcontracting them)

JP

#11

[quote=“WBD”]This information has been known for a while:

Ernest Louis Lecomte took over from Paul Karcher of Paris in the c1870-1880 period and used an “E.L” hs (known on nearly all the Karcher primed cartridges)

Lecomte’s business was taken over by Adolphe Nétré c1875-1880 who used an “A.N” hs.

Sometime c1880-1890 Adolphe Nétré joined with a “Beaugrand” to form Beaugrand & Nétré who used a “B.N.” hs.[/quote]

This ad finished in February 1895
We can see it is the association of Beaugrand and of the two Nétré brothers (Adolphe and ???)

This one started in April 1897
Only one brother (Adolphe) and no more Beaugrand)

JP

#12

Thanks for showing these JP.

These advert’s bring into question the information previously published on this sequence of companies. I will compare this with other articles and see what it produces.

#13

After looking through the various notes I have and in particular the articles of A. Leveau, it appears that some confusion has occurred in the translations.

Below I offer a revised history of the PK-EL-BN-AN companies with their hs. This certainly won’t be 100% correct and I welcome corrections.

Thanks for bringing this subject up JP as this topic has always been confusing.

Paul Karcher worked from c1870-c1880 and is best known for an 1875 patent for a unique Internally Primed CF ignition system (#106841). His patent was used in a range of IP cartridges for French Walking Stick (Canne Gun) as well as other weapons. Karcher cartridges generally used “KARCHER Bte S.G.D.G.” and “P.K BTE S.G.D.G.” hs.

Ernest Louis Lecomte took over the business of Paul Karcher sometime c1880 and used a “E.L” trademark. As the Karcher patent was still evidently legally binding until 1890, Lecomte sold Karcher primed ammunition that not only had a “E.L.” in the hs but was generally encountered with a “P. KARCHER Bte S.G.D.G.” included as well.

Sometime c1890 (certainly by 1893) Lecomte’s business was taken over by Beaugrand & Nétré (Frères = Brothers) who used a “B.N.” hs. The Karcher patent had now expired and so the Karcher name was not shown in any hs.

By 1897 “Beaugrand” had left and there was just Adolphe Nétré who used an “A.N” hs. There are far less “A.N.” variations than “B.N.” variations which makes sense as these Canne guns were probably becoming less popular by then.

#14

I wanted to re activate this old thread, as I have a question. I am fully familiar with this history and the headstamp mentioned. But who is the Initial S in an S.N headstamp that is identical in every way to the B N headstamp? This is not a poor B but an S, as too rounded on the left side.
Sn%20No%203%20Paris