Interesting finds at Little Rock gunshow


I bought a box of loose ammo this weekend, and had a few surprises. I am hoping you can help me figure them out. I don’t yet have a set of calipers, but maybe it won’t matter for this post:

  1. Rimmed straight case 50 cal Case length above rim is 1 7/8 with slightest of shoulders situated 3/8 from neck. base is 5/8 diameter. No headstamp. Bullet is lead with a copper colored disc in center of nose with an embossed “X” in center. Is this a 50 Gatling with embedded primer in the projectile?

  2. copper colored straight case 1 5/16 total length with large flared base 1/2" in diameter with central struck primer. Firing pin impression is discoid, 1/8 diameter and flat across the bottom, not rounded like a typical firing pin. Headstamp is WISE on one side, and 1718-85 across other side. I found the name WISE, an American company, in the headstamp reference list. Is this an artillery primer of some kind? There is no threading or scoring to show that this was pressed or screwed into a larger shell.

  3. 11mm cartridge with lead bullet and Mauser style base headstamped with quadrant lines, TE.IC, 3-85, ART, C.E. I am guessing 11mm Mauser rifle black powder, by a German maker, but the Headstamp reference on this site had no matches.

There were a bunch of other oddballs in the shoebox, but I figured the rest of them out. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Dan


#1–.50-70 Govt. case made by W.R.A.Co,. with an Copper-Tubed Express bullet for hunting.

#2–No Idea

#3–This is a 11mm French Gras rather than a 11mm Mauser. The headstamp is definently French, not German.
I’ll dig out the manufactures name and post it later.


The 11 French Gras headstamp is interpered as follows:

ART = Made by an “Artillery” or in other words a Government Factory.

3-85 = March 1885

C.E. = Collet a Epaulement. It means the case has a small shoulder inside the neck against which a wad is seated. This marking was used from 1885 to the end of production in 1887.

TE = Loaded by Ateliers de Construction de Toulouse, France.

IC = Case metal supplier Societe Intravis, Chamblon-Feugerolles


Thanks! Dan


The TE, which is on the site listing, is the key piece of info. Some headstamps have lots of info, you just have to search a bit to decipher them and find the really important bits.