Is it 7.63 Mauser or 7.62x25 Russian?


#1

I am trying to figure out if the below is 7.63 Mauser, or 7.62x25 Russian. I understand the only difference is the load charge.
These are steel jacketed FMJs, headstamp "bxn (1) or (I) 58 ", so I assume 1958 production, and Sellier & Bellot, Prague, Czechoslovakia, Factory in Zbrojovka Vlàsim, However I do not know if they made 7.62x25mm Russian? 40 cartridges to a box with 5 clips, however these are straight clips with only 8 cartridges, not the curved 10 round clips for the broomsticks pistol. The Box reads 7,62-Pi
Prach Ncdp- P1 nma 10/52 Nap 0,65g gts 310/58
I can not seem to import the JGP ? you will have to click on the link:
http://www.ammo-one.com/763Mauser5ClipBox.jpg
Thanks in advance for enlightening me.
Best,
Dave Call
ammo-one.com


#2

The basic difference of the 7.62х25TT cartridges is a wide flute for extrator. But now produce the unified cartridges with a wide flute, but named 7.63х25. You sell 7.62х25 cartridges. The additional proof a mode of packing of cartridges. In the USSR similar clips used for storage of cartridges for a TT pistol. The user had at once the complete set from 8 cartridges for magazine loads.


#3

It is Czech 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo, made for their CZ52 pistol and an SMG (M24, M26?) in the same caliber. I believe the strippers were specifically meant for loading the SMG mags.


#4

[quote=“AmmoOne”]40 cartridges to a box with 5 clips, however these are straight clips with only 8 cartridges, not the curved 10 round clips for the broomsticks pistol. The Box reads 7,62-Pi
[/quote]
Dave, that’s not just the 7,62 Tok but actually a hot-loaded version of it, intended for Czech subguns. It is generally considered to be unsafe even in TT and Vz.52 pistols (Czech sources told me that Vz.52 will crack after about 3-5 000 rounds of the 7,62-Pi ammo). Firing it in old C96 pistols is very hazardous, I believe.


#5

[quote=“mpopenker”][quote=“AmmoOne”]40 cartridges to a box with 5 clips, however these are straight clips with only 8 cartridges, not the curved 10 round clips for the broomsticks pistol. The Box reads 7,62-Pi
[/quote]
Dave, that’s not just the 7,62 Tok but actually a hot-loaded version of it, intended for Czech subguns. It is generally considered to be unsafe even in TT and Vz.52 pistols (Czech sources told me that Vz.52 will crack after about 3-5 000 rounds of the 7,62-Pi ammo). Firing it in old C96 pistols is very hazardous, I believe.[/quote]

Thanks to all for the information, there is a lot of this on the market here in the USA, I hope all are careful with it, I was told it was 7.63 Mauser, but did not believe or know if it was true, glad I asked. Always best to know what is chambered in the firearm before pulling the trigger ;-)

My Best,
Dave
www.ammo-one.com


#6

lots of that ammo came over after the wall fell. The 8 round stripper is for the CZ-52. Czech pressures run around 42,000 +/- c.u.p
as opposed to 30-32,000 for TT-33 cartridges.

We got lots and lots with the tags removed from the boxes. My buddy was a FFL dealer at the time and got it by the crate load.We chronographed it versus Chinese and Russian TT-33. All I remember was it was much faster. We also shot it at an expired threat level IIA vest. Right through it.

The only reference I remember seeing was 7.62x25,whereas 7.63 is usually reserved for Mauser

CZ-52 will shear off firing pins,leading to AD.


#7

Pretty sure the strippers are for the SMG, not the CZ52.


#8

Interesting, that Czeh’s didn’t devided Pistol and SMG cartridges in their official nomenclature. The description on the boxes with 40 cartridges indicate standard 7,62-mm Pi (Pistol) rounds.

May be the main problem was arise after changing the powder from early 0,55 grams of vz. 27 II to later about 0,64 grams of Р1. Meanwhile Czeh sources declare that both loads are equal in their characteristics in spite of difference in charge weight.


#9

I have never seen TT cartridges loaded in clips for charging TT magazine in USSR. Do you have a picture of such clip or source of this info?


#10

Czeh 8-cartridge clips was used with SMG Sa24 and Sa26. On the right side of the forestock there are a support ways for the clips with cartridges. For loading magazine you only need to move it forward along clip to the muzzle direction.

I found a picture in the web to illustrate this:


#11

I am wondering, like Treshkin, about Russian use of clips for issue of ammunition for the TT30 and TT33 and other 7.62 x 25 mm weapons. I have never heard of this, or seen any Russian ammunition on clips.

It is true that the Chinese have issued 7.62 x 25 ammunition on Mauser C.96 stripper clips, and pouches designed to hold two of these clips, for carrying spare ammunition on the belt for the Tokarev T-51 and T-54 pistols. I have a T-54 that was captured in VN along with the holster, belt, cleaning rod, one of these pouches and another pouch that may have been for a compass.
In fact, these pouches are common in the USA now. They also made a pouch for two spare magazines (the regulation holster for the T-54 already carries one spare magazine), which is identical to the pouch for the Mauser-type clips but larger. These spare magazine pouches are not so common here as are the clip pouches.

I wonder if the Chinese use of these is causing some confusion here?


#12

One officer remembered that in the eighties received in an arsenal cartridges for practical shooting from a TT pistol in such clips. It were Russian cartridges, not Czech. The worker of an arsenal has explained that this mode is applied to a long-term storage of cartridges. After shooting clip remained with the officer. Cartridges were old, made in the fifties, and them destroyed on proving ground.


#13

Sorry that we can raly upon only one officer’s memory. May be this Arsenal use Czeh clips for collecting cartridges from damaged boxes/packs? First I hear about such type of storage, it was not described in cartridge manuals and storage instructions which was available for me. May it was only local storage impruving for only one stock of ammo?


#14

The version about the damaged packs very interesting. She explains requirement for destruction of cartridges.


#15

–post deleted as inappropriate
sorry, everyone, didn’t meant to offend anyone or start flame

ПС извините, погорячился.


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#17

Дим, пойдем на Райберт. Там нам рады


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#20

Delete it - heck no. All us nosey guys want to know what its about. Vlad should translate it, not anyone deleting it! Well, maybe he shouldn’t translate it since you describe it as a “shoot-out.” : )

John