Is there a "Blue Book of Ammo Values" like Fjestad


#1

Like Fjestad’s Editions of ‘Gun Values’? I’ve inherited a foot locker full of vintage military ammo from 71/84 Mauser thru WW11, mostly boxed or cased. Don’t know where to start in appraising it. If not a ‘Blue Book’, another suggestion? Thank you, Don Weiler


#2

The IAA back issues & others to follow had / have peroidic lists of single cartridges and approx. values. Auction catalogs and dealer lists are another source, but no single source I’m aware of.
As to boxes, about the only one is by Ray Giles & Daniel Shuey, who have an excellent book covering older boxes of Winchester SPORTING ammunition.


#3

Not my speciality as I like the big bore stuff primarily but I am pretty sure their is a book called the “Buttweiler Archive”, and it is supposed to be the best reference in the world for small arms collector ammunition values? I have not purchased it but it is available usually on auctionarms.com and on ebay from seller ID CSAEOD.

Jason


#4

The Buttweiler auctions only represent the higher-end stuff; in all likelihood, Don, your footlocker will have “shooting-grade” surplus ammo. I say that sight unseen, of course, and there is still a healthy market for it, but there won’t be an easy reference to determine what it might be worth.

Grade also makes a big deal. Clean, sealed boxes will be worth more (on average) than not. Depends on what’s in them, etc, etc.

If you have a list, and/or photos, contact me offline and I might be able to help you with an estimate. I put out a catalog for a number of years and still have the database.


#5

[quote=“Cyberwombat”]The Buttweiler auctions only represent the higher-end stuff; in all likelihood, Don, your footlocker will have “shooting-grade” surplus ammo. I say that sight unseen, of course, and there is still a healthy market for it, but there won’t be an easy reference to determine what it might be worth.

Grade also makes a big deal. Clean, sealed boxes will be worth more (on average) than not. Depends on what’s in them, etc, etc.

If you have a list, and/or photos, contact me offline and I might be able to help you with an estimate. I put out a catalog for a number of years and still have the database.[/quote]

NOT SO.

THE BUTTWEILER ARCHIVE HAS THOUSANDS OF COLLECTOR CARTRIDGES FROM COMMON ITEMS WORTH A BUCK TO ONES IN THE THOUSANDS.

PHOTOS AND ACTUAL SELLING PRICES.

GET INFORMATION BEFORE YOU SELL ANYTHING .

RARE AMMUNITION IS WORTH MUCH. COMMON NOT SO MUCH.

The BEST way to find out the value of a cartridge is to list it on Auctionarms or Gunbroker and see who wants it.


#6

Says the person selling the Buttweiler Archive CD…

Look, I’m not diss’ing it, but average shooting-grade ammo is not likely to be in there. I used to sell the back-issues of the catalog, so I know of what I speak.

Additional disclaimer: I am no longer a dealer. I have no interest in doing anything but helping value what this guy inherited. Maybe he doesn’t want to sell it? If that’s the case why put it up for auction?


#7

I do not know how much it cost but would want a copy just for giggles and to have it as a reference to try to match up some rounds, especially if any are rare. I wish they made one of these books for large, inert, artillery shells and tank bullets :-) I love reference material.

Who knows, Dr. Weiler may become a collector now that he has such a great jump start. Anyhow, I hope pictures of your finds get posted down the road.

Jason


#8

OK now I will put in my two cents, as a collector of the shooting quality stuff, It comes down to how much is it worth, How bad does some one want it? If you watch the auctions, low price items can go very high if wanted by two or more collectors. End result it is worth what you can get for it so don’t jump on the first offer, there may be more and trading is always an option. If you are a member you can list your stuff on the trade list and you find out real fast how much it is worth. Vic


#9

The auction archive books only show what people paid at auction for certain items. Auctions and on-line dealers can easily market items described as scarce, but in-fact are fairly common or available through other collector channels, at much reduced prices. In addition, auction offerings reflect only a tiny percentage of collector ammo, and the limited descriptions in the auction archives usually tend to muddy the waters between what is rare and valuable, and what is common and inexpensive. Although it pains me to give an indirect plug, an auction price guide is essentially useless without the referenced auction catalogs and the knowledge to understand them. Then you have to factor-in the date of the auctions. What was rare and valuable in 1975 became dirt-common when the USSR fell, etc.
Pricing cartridges is more an acquired art than a science. Good luck without a knowledgeable collector friend to help.


#10

That makes allot of sense to me Jon. That being said, I would still want ALL the info I could get, especialy if it was not that expensive and I was in the "learning stage, but that is jut me. I am a “Info Junky” :-)

Jason


#11

That’s exactly what I meant, Jason. One part means nothing without the other, and you can’t put the two pieces together without developing the knowledge and experience to understand them. Even that is not enough sometimes. One of the beautiful things about out chosen hobby is that there is always something more to learn. Learn as much as you can, and try to stay as current as possible. Fortunately we have the IAA, IAA Forum, ECRA, etc.


#12

For sure! The IAA RULES and so do its members and guests. I just wish they made one of these archives full of pics and descriptions for the larger bore ammunition also :-)

Jason


#13

When I was a younger lad, I bought a couple boxes of .30-40 Krag rounds I wasn’t terribly familiar with at a local cartridge show auction. Got’ em at a pretty righteous price. The cases were blackened, and they were loaded with a long lead bullet. One box was opened, one was sealed; both labels were in very nice shape.

A short time later, I sold both boxes, at about four times what I paid for them. Thought I was pretty sharp at the time. It was to a dealer at a local gun show, and as I walked away holding my new-found cash, I glanced back and caught the I-can’t-believe-what-he-just-sold-me look in the dealer’s eye…and knew in my heart I had made a big mistake.

Many, many moons later, Peter Davis and I went to a gun show in Dallas, one we tried to hit pretty regular. Almost as soon as we walked in, I spotted an unusual brass shell…it was big, and looked like a shortened 75mm howitzer case, only…not the right diameter.

I asked the guy who’s table it was on what it was, and what he wanted for it. “Waallll,” he drawled, “I think it’s some kind of salutin’ gun shell…Gimme 5 bucks for it?” I turned the case over and over in my hands, but then noticed the base screwed off…and had a fiver whipped out of my wallet faster than you can say oh-gauge-strong-cannon.

And dropped the piece on the floor not ten paces from his table.

Despite the ding in the case mouth, it featured on the front cover of a Buttweiler auction not long afterward.

My point is this: you win some, you lose some. So many things have been tried in the world of cartridges that it is nigh impossible to know everything about everything. Value is, like Vic said, really only related to what someone else is willing to pay for something. You can make a career of knowing all there is to know about ammo and still get fleeced by some sharper person flogging a fake box of Sharps Linen Carbine cartridges one day. Or be the right man at the right time when someone decides to sell off ten packets of unmodified 10.6mm Jarmann rifle cartridges. (Yeah…I kept one…and no…you can’t have it.)

There was a bigger point here somewhere, but I think it fell into the rum…something about learn what you can in the time frame you have, but don’t sweat whether you got the absolute top dollar or not. 'Cause that kind of thinking will drive you to drink. Wait, what?


#14

What was this shell?


#15

[quote=“Cyberwombat”][quote=“CSAEOD”]
NOT SO.

THE BUTTWEILER ARCHIVE HAS THOUSANDS OF COLLECTOR CARTRIDGES FROM COMMON ITEMS WORTH A BUCK TO ONES IN THE THOUSANDS.

PHOTOS AND ACTUAL SELLING PRICES.
[/quote]

Says the person selling the Buttweiler Archive CD…

Look, I’m not diss’ing it, but average shooting-grade ammo is not likely to be in there. I used to sell the back-issues of the catalog, so I know of what I speak.

Additional disclaimer: I am no longer a dealer. I have no interest in doing anything but helping value what this guy inherited. Maybe he doesn’t want to sell it? If that’s the case why put it up for auction?[/quote]

THAT IS CORRECT. I AM THE PUBLISHER OF THE BUTTWEILER ARCHIVE WHICH WAS DONE AS A PUBLIC SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY OF INTERESTED PARTIES. IT TOOK 2 YEARS TO SELL ENOUGH COPIES TO COVER PRODUCTION EXPENSES. Cartridge collectors are notoriously tight with their money when it comes to buying reference materials.

Ask George Hoyem , Dean Thomas , and of course Hackley , Woodin , and Scranton whose Vol. 1 ( which is the standard reference in the field of US ammo of that type) took 20 years to sell .

I am finally into profit on the ARCHIVE - 25 copies have been given freely to various agencies and collectors in need. I don’t figure those in the business
calculations.

IN 50 + YEARS OF AMMO COLLECTING I HAVE SEEN FAR MORE MISIDENTIFCATION AND PRICING THAN RELIABLE AND THAT IS HOW THE MAN IN THE KNOW PROFITS.

THE BUTTWEILER ARCHIVE
IT IS STILL THE MOST EXTENSIVE AND AUTHORITIVE REFERENCE IN THE FIELD. IT SHOWS ACTUAL PHOTOS OF THE CARTRIDGES AND THE ACTUAL SALES PRICES.
The new second version has the “click to find” feature which locates the cartridge of interest by clicking on it in the index. That feature cost me an aditional $1000 for programing but it was well worth it as the ARCHIVE is now so easy to use that anyone with minimal skills can ZIP to photo , identification and on to ACTUAL SELLING price instantly.

Some buyers of the first edition found leafing through the thousands of pages tiring. The “click to find” program does that with ease.

Many bloggers add their opinions about items and reference which they do not own.

I have the names of ALL registered buyers of the Archive. I would like to know if you actually own one. What is your name? You know mine ( IF NOT, IT IS DR. J.R. CRITTENDEN SCHMITT ).

IF YOU ARE WHO I THINK YOU ARE YOU HAVE MADE A BIT OF PROFIT YOURSELF OVER THE YEARS IN CARTRIDGE SALES INCLUDING WITH BUTTWEILER AS YOU MENTIONED.

Since you WERE a DEALER as you said lets consider the reference value of YOUR lists. I have ALL of the lists and publications from US dealers of substance over the past 30 years in my library and will gladly dust off yours for consideration if you will let us all know who you are.

Everyone from Wombats to Batwoms has the right to blog their opinions about anything AND DO. Opinions are often contention rather than information.

Several of the Texas collectors/dealers had bad blood with Rob Buttweiler and have made it a mission to attack him and his work.

Bottom line is : Rob Buttweiler did more in his years of collector ammo interest than anyone else has ever done. He documented more , published more , and facilitated cartridge collecting on a scale previously unknown.

Love him or hate him - that is a fact.

I see more prejudice than information in some of these posts.

The prices in Gun Report and those reprinted in the “JOURNAL” are only of possible use and interest to those who know what the cartridges are. For those who do not know what the shells are photos and measurements are much more helpfull.

Buttweiler measured and published the measurements of all of the specimens offered. PHOTOS , MEASUREMENTS AND ACTUAL SELLING PRICES .

NO BETTER PLACE TO JUMP INTO THE GAME.

YES, THAT IS THE FELLOW WHO OWNS IT AND SELLS IT SAYING SO WITH A MONEYBACK GUARANTEE !

QUALITY IS ITS OWN VIRTUE.

I HAVE NOT HAD A RETURN YET !


#16

Well said Cyber! You definitely win some and loose some in all aspects of life and collecting. Like Falcon, I am dying to know what that 75-mm case was with the screw off base. I have seen a Japanese case that had a screw off base but never a US one (yet), too cool!

Jason


#17

Jason,
I think it was an “O”-gauge Strong saluting cannon blank. I know nothing about them, but I have heard of the Strong cannons before.


#18

My name is Dan LeClair, the surviving half of LeClair, Davis & Co. No, I don’t own one of your CD’s, as I still have boxes of back issues of RTB auction catalogs.

Robert Buttweiler is a personal friend of mine, and I have often stood up for him in discussion with other collectors. He was the one who suggested to Peter Davis and I that we start producing a catalog. I helped him clean out his office when he finally shut down. The man did an incredible amount for the cartridge collecting fraternity; the simple fact that you continue to sell the Archive CD is a testament to how useful his work was on a purely referential level.

I like to think that, in some small way, Pete and I also contributed. But I will freely admit that we made mistakes over the lifetime of LD&Co. On may levels.

You act as if this is some personal attack. It is not. I would recommend the archive CD to any collector interested in seriously learning about collectible cartridges. But I also know that Buttweiler set a price-point for the things that went into his auctions (whether they actually reached it or exceeded it is moot).

Use the right tool for the job is my point. The archive CD is probably not the right tool for someone with no knowledge of cartridges attempting to value a footlocker full of surplus ammo. It is very possible that some of what’s in said footlocker may have crossed Robert’s desk over the years, but odds are against that.


#19

Yes, it was an 0-gauge strong cannon shell. Pretty cool piece.


#20

Thank you gentlemen for the informative responses. Being in Mesa, Az., I’ll attend the Crossroads Gunshow in Phoenix next month to learn more. I don’t think there are any real treasures in the footlocker, just a great volumn of WW1-WW11 military ammo, ie, 71/84, Lebel, etc. with a few loose 19th century pinfires. This is a wonderful website and forum. Thanks again, Don