Is this 30-06 Box a Remington Lend Lease?


#1

I’ve had this box of 30-06 around for a while and was wondering if any of you knew who it was for, and what?

It has nomenclature similar to Remington contract boxes for England, yet it references the caliber as “.30”, not “.300”. So, it seems like an American caliber designation with a contract style label.

I am also not quite sure what the purpose of “Gun Functioning” is. Normally this type of language is used for a Dummy round, but these are obviously Ball cartridges. I haven’t had the heart to open it despite how curious I am about what is inside.

Anyone care to shed some light on this one for me?

Thanks,
Dave


#2

I assume this is a lot that did not pass the accuracy test (even after the usual repetition of the test with doubled number of shots) but was otherwise ok. So it was relegated to be used in function firing only.


#3

American small arms, and likely those of most countries, were tested not only for pressure-proofing, but also with standard ammunition for function. I am not sure if it was every weapon so-tested or if it was a certain percentage of production. Between the caliber designation and the “For Gun Functioning” label," I would think this was for American use, probably for the manufacturers of weapons in-house use, or for high echelons of maintenance within the services. Just an assumption - could be wrong, of course. I agree the box label looks more British Style than US.


#4

Hi Dave, a technical manual published early in 1942 includes some descriptions of the tests to which ammunition is subjected for acceptance: visual inspection, velocity test, pressure test, hangfire test, functioning and casualty test in specified weapons (machine gun functioning test and rifle functioning test), bolt-lift test, accuracy test, loading and unloading test, and tracer test. The “machine gun functioning test” description says: “A number of cartridges are fired to determine the numbers of jams, ruptures, or other mechanical defects”, and the one for “rifle functioning test” says “A number of rounds are fired in a rifle whose head space is specified”.

HWS II p. 72 also mentions: “During the early part of the war, the Ordnance Department authorized the loading of second-class components and rounds with minor visual defects as ‘Gun functioning’ ammunition”. This Remington box is described as a product of that era.


#5

Thank you gentlemen. I went back to WHS II and found the paragraph mentioned by Fede.


#6

In Britain during WW2 and beyond the round and the machine guns were always referred to as “thirty calibre”.


#7

Vince - when you say “always referred to as “thirty calibre,”” do you mean in conversation? I thought I had seen labels using the caliber designation of “.300.” Just wondered.


#8

john,

you are right, the boxes for the UK were marked 300
see below

I have one other Remington box from 1941 but this one is marked cal 30

Dave,
that’s a great box you are showing us. I would love to add that one to my collection :)

cheers
René


#9

I would say pretty much always in books etc. most of the stuff I read are personal accounts things like “the merchant ship had a couple of thirty calibre machine guns mounted…”

Here is an example, scroll down to the picture of a home made armoured car and read the text to the left of the picture about half way down

books.google.co.uk/books?id=PzqL … &q&f=false

The next bit is more TonyE’s area but I believe some of this ammo was downgraded because the powder was inconsistant which is why there may be so much practice grade packaging but we will have to wait for Tony on that one.


#10

I would say pretty much always in books etc. most of the stuff I read are personal accounts things like “the merchant ship had a couple of thirty calibre machine guns mounted…”

Here is an example, scroll down to the picture of a home made armoured car and read the text to the left of the picture about half way down

books.google.co.uk/books?id=PzqL … &q&f=false

The next bit is more TonyE’s area but I believe some of this ammo was downgraded because the powder was inconsistant which is why there may be so much practice grade packaging but we will have to wait for Tony on that one.[/quote]

I have known quite a few ex-Home Guard men, two of whom are still alive near here and both still working their farms! Most times that they did refer to their rifles or the BAR they called them “Three hundreds”. One of them works a farm in Appleby where he has lived all of his life, the local Home Guard rifle range was across fields of his farm and last year he showed me the remnants of the buttstop. I suppose that a post-war author, who did not serve in the Home Guard himself, would probably refer to the calibre as .30.

gravelbelly


#11

Remember, in published accounts, grammar and spelling obsessed editors likely have gone through and “fixed” what might appear to them to be an error, so unless it is a contemporary military oriented publication, I would not find later published evidence too convincing.

Also, the U.S. provided huge numbers of Model 1917 rifles, as well as other .30-06 caliber weapons to numerous allies (Johnson M1941 rifles to the Netherlands, etc), and filled numerous foreign and lend lease contracts, so not all the items found are necessarily linked to UK use, or would have necessarily used official UK style nomenclature.

I guess that is what makes this fun!