It was supposed to be an 11mm Vickers?

Received this cartridge last week. Supposed to be a 11mm vickers FA 20 hs. See attached pics.

First pic shows the mystery at far right. From left, cartridges 1 and 2 are 11x59 Gras rounds. Cartridge 3 is a Western 3-17 headstamped 11 mm Vickers round.

Second pic is a photo of the base. HS is FA 20. This is the revised type vickers case.

The case length is still 59 mm. The bullet dia is 10.6 mm. Bullet is NON-magnetic but very heavy as the full weight of the cartridge is 699grn (by comparison the Western 3-17 11mm Vickers cartridge weighs 620 grn). The bullet has a smooth deep cannelure visible just above the case mouth. The bullet has some type of dull silver plating (finish is like that of WW1 30-06 ball).

Has a small copper primer in ring crimp and traces of purple primer seal.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If its a wildcat can anyone tell me what it is?


HWS 1 indicates that the Western cases had the shoulder 1.51" from the rim and FA cases had shoulders 1.437" from the rim. Does this come close to yours? The “standard” ball projectile was flat nosed and .444" dia. but it is also noted that experiments were done with nose shapes using “FA 20” cases and though none illustrated look like yours, one is indicated as being 481.5 grains. Check the neck diameter of your mystery cartridge as you may be measuring the bullet at less than full diameter. The neck should be near .46" dia. with the correct diameter bullet.

Might be a very nice experimental FA loading of the 11mm Vickers or maybe even something different as there were experiments done by FA with “FA 20” 11mm Vickers cases modified to use .30 caliber projectiles…


the bullet in the one on the right looks like an Italian Vetterli to me.
Still the case is hard to come by.


I re-measured the case.

Case length is 2.32" HWS 1 for the Revised Vickers case shows 2.34"

Rim dia .660" vs .661" HWS

Head dia .540" vs .541" HWS

Neck dia .446" vs .465" HWS

Bullet dia .417" or 10.6 mm

I checked the page in HWS refering to the experimental bullets and they were .444" dia and differently shaped as you stated in your post.

Pete, it does kind of look like a vetterli bullet but still not quite the same profile. Also, what about the weight of this one 699 grn as compared to the 620 grn of the WESTERN 3-17 Vickers to the left?

Thanks again