Italian ctges identification needed Vetterli Blanks


Here are two italian Veterli rifle ctges unknown to me
each ctge is made of two different parts (either brass and brass either copper and brass)
these ctges are blanks

Does somebody know which model it is ?
Is it scarce ?


JP, these are M. 86 blanks for Gardner machine gun. Contemporany blank for rifles and carbines were loaded with a grey paper bullet (these were later replaced by M. 90 model with orange paper).


Thanks !

What is the value ?


  1. I suppose the box at the bottom on the right is what you call the ctge with orange paper bullet (Mle 90 da salve). Right?
    The box is closed therefore I don’t know what look like the ctge!

Is it scarce?

  1. At the top on the right is another Veterli box.
    The guy told me they are blanks
    Could they contain the same ctges I showed or is it something else ?

  2. the box on the left is very smal and for example can contain ctges with same size as 38 special
    what is inside ?



Here is the picture


Box at top right is probably for bulletless M. 70 blanks (single loading). Dimensions?

You are ight, box at the bottom is for M. 90 blanks with reduced neck and orange/red paper bullet.

Box on the left looks right for 10, 4 mm Chamelot-Delvigne M. 1874 revolver cartridges.


I opened the boxes
I was very surprised because the blanks Mle 1890 have a paper WHITE paper bullet instead of an red-orange paper bullet !
Do you know this model ??

I have some to sell


Interesting discovery .
The cross implies a reloading

I have some to sell


I have the same blank with white paper bullet. My sample is headstamped “CR B82” ( pyrotechnia of Bologna) and it is not a reload.

It is a model 1890 even if the case dates back 1882, anyway they may have used older cases to load these cartridges. That was a common practice with Carcano blanks and dummies that used older, rejected or fired cases

About the price: I paid 10 euros for my sample about 2 years ago


thanks PIVI
About the white paper bullet ctges you made a good deal, the usual price on all the catalogues is about 50 euros !

What is the price of the Mle 1870 blanks ?


I paid a very good price since the guy who sold it to me had several of these rounds at home. He found them in a cellar so he picked up them for free. It’s not my collecting field but I bought it since the price was low

These cartridges are not common items but I also saw other Vetterli loads sold at very high prices outside Italy. For example I saw a multiball round, that is more common than blanks, sold for 75 euros, when it can be found here in Italy for less than 30 euros.

I don’t have the M70 blank, but I can ask here and there what are the prices seen at the various fairs. It is scarcer than the M90 blank, that’s sure

A typical italian price for a ball loading ( FMJ M90) is about 12 - 15 euros ( common headstamps), a little more for the lead bullet loading. I think that they can be found in the USA for less than 10 $


Thanks Pivi !
And what about the price of the gardner blank ?


On the box it is written Mle 1870 AND Mle 1870/87

In the boxes they are only one kind of ctge : with brass vullet which is Mle 87

Why do they writte AND ?



JP, those are firearm models (Vetterli M. 70 and Vetterli-Vitali M. 70-87) in which this round could be used. This is a typical box for M. 90 cartridges.


thank you