Italian Fuze maker


#1

On a 1956 hand colored chart detailing coloring of DISA 20 mm M/42 projectiles, there is two fuze makers mentioned, FN on the HE-T and an italian make on the HE-I: "B.P.D."
Anybody has a guess to who that can be?
Soren


#2

Bombrini Parodi Delfino, head factory at Colleferro, near Rome, and subsidiary factory at Genoa.
Ammunition maker( Small Arms and Artillery) since early 1900s, eventually (in 1970s) absorbed by nationalised Italian Ordnance Combine.

Also a world renowned Sporting ammo (Shotshell) maker.


#3

OK, many thanks, Doc. I’m collecting the little available information there is on the 20 mm Madsen for the entry on Arma-Dania.
vaabenhistoriskselskab.dk/ar … editid1=39
Soren


#4

Mausernut would you have images of these charts for us?


#5

Its not much, but here it is.

The text upper right means KA reworked for training use, inerted Fuze. KA may be the type designation DISA used.
lower left means: belgian stamp in the driving band:
Soren

Edit: changed word “right” to “left” (text lower left)


#6

Thanks for clarification.

These are no Madsen projectiles - as I thought already when you mentioned FN and BPD, eventhough FN made AP cartridges in the 1980’s for an Asian country.
Going by the shape and designations this chart is for 20x110RR Oerlikon.

If you are going to present all Danish 20mm on your website do not forget 20x110 HS404, 20x102 M56 and 20x145R.

Please notice that not all ammo advertised in MADSEN/DISA catalogs was in use by the Danish armed forces.


#7

I agree with EOD, those are not Madsen projectiles.

Kynoch in the UK manufactured a large number of 20 and 23mm Madsen rounds, and indeed did much of the development of the projectiles and fuzes. Peter Labbett also produced a short booklet on Kynoch Madsen ammunition based on their drawings.

Regards
TonyE


#8

Who was still using Madsen guns in the 1980s?


#9

I do not remember but if so it was Malaysia or so. Someone may correct me please.


#10

[quote]If you are going to present all Danish 20mm on your website do not forget 20x110 HS404, 20x102 M56 and 20x145R.[/quote]Oh, it’s not my website, I’m only the editor of the automatic weapons line. The 20 mm entry is still a little controversial says the webmaster. EOD those other 20 mm are either RDAF or Navy, so are sadly not eligible for Arma Dania.
The chart was found in the trash when DISA left the Free Harbour facility around 1970. It can very well have been a trial lot of Oerlikon ammo for some sales they were trying to make.
The 20 mm Madsen were requisitioned by the germans already in 1940 and used by them at various locations for air defense. (Guy Gibson was probably one of the reasons when he flew under the little belt bridge in april 1940. After that incident the germans made their “request”.
I’ll se if I can find Labbett’s booklet.
Soren


#11

Soren, do you know which Danish service used the 20x145R Bofors? It is pretty much a land based gun and sometimes considered an AT rifle.


#12

No, and I am a little surprised that you mentioned it as a danish service cartridge. It might have come with the danish brigade, equipped and trained by the swedish 1943-45 from danish refugees. I always thought they had the swedish 37 mm cannon as their AT gun but I am not a Brigade expert so has to read up on the subject. Luckily Chakoten.dk has quite a bit on the Brigade :-)
Will return if I find something.
Soren

ETA: Rio de Janeiro police used the 7,62 Madsen until 2008. I believe they were the last.


#13

Soren, a Danish ammo manual dated 1950 (have only loose pages and no title) is describing the cartridge and says there were even Danish made blanks and dummies (probably on Swedish cases). So it seems not to be directly related to the Danish brigade. This whole thing is really puzzling me.


#14

I’m puzzled as well…
One of the good sources is the “Ammunitionskataloget” you have some pages from, but frustratingly it does not tell you what weapon the cartridge was supposed to be used in. Except in the few cases where firing in the wrong gun might give problems, like with the 12,7x76 spotting cartridge.
The ammo catalogue is one of the future scanning projects, right now I’m doing the 1910-26 artillery new materiel notices.
Soren


#15

Soren, so you are working on Frydenlund and Hoffmann or on the “Materialbekendgorelse” (I likely miss spelled it)? That “Ammunitionskataloget” sounds even more interesting.


#16

I am not sure what Frydenlund and Hoffmann is, but it is the Materielbekendtgørelse series A (for Artillery) number 1 ff I’m putting on disk. Later on the series F (Footsoldiers equipment, for lack of a better translation) goes in the machine. The Ammunitionskataloget is a seperate issue, only dealing with that subject, whereas the others deal with all new items, horsecarts, Engineers rifles etc etc.
It will take a while to get it scanned, but we will get there eventually.
Soren


#17

Soren, the two others I referred to are:

Indholdsfortegnelse og Tegninger til
Artilleriets Ammunition
K. N. Frydenlund
Kjøbenhavn 1916

and

Trgninger til Artilleriets Ammunition af
M.G. Hoffmann
Kaptajn
Kjøbenhavn 1896

I hope you manage your scanning soon :)


#18

[quote=“EOD”]Soren, do you know which Danish service used the 20x145R Bofors? It is pretty much a land based gun and sometimes considered an AT rifle.[/quote]It was used in the (earlier designation) 20 mm automatic cannon M/40S (new designation:) M/44(40)fa and M/44(40)LvFa. This is mentioned in a materielbekendtgørelse from 26 may 1952.
The following ammunition was in the supply line for this gun:
HE-T M/40, M/42 and M/48
AP-T M/42
Practice-T M/48
Dummy M/40 and
Blank M/40
It looks like it was the army after all, I can’t find out if it was in/on a vehicle or what.
Søren


#19

Soren, so far I have seen it only in a ground based configuration.