Just a photo of some Soviet suff, and info on a new book


The most interesting item here is 3.5/10mm FSDS round in a rimless case, designed in around 1974 for an experimental MG. Unlike the 4.5/10x54R round shown next to it, which is known among collectors for quite some time, the rimless one is an enigma.
And no, unfortunately this image is not from my collection :(
I have one 4.5/10x54R, but learned about 3.5/10mm only last week, and wish me a good luck ever actually finding one…

BTW, for those interesting in Soviet ammo and able to read Russian, i highly recommend this book, especially 3rd and 4th volumes. It is UNIQUE to say the least, and tells many previously untold stories about development of mass-produced and experimental Soviet small arms ammo:
patronschik.ru/books.html
It’s not cheap (about $50-60 per volume before S&H) but well worth it.

hello
it the first time that i see a russian 12.7x108 with lacquered steel case

[quote=“ammogun”]hello
it the first time that i see a russian 12.7x108 with lacquered steel case[/quote]

The first ones are from 1941. The one here is likely from the ~1974 test lot.

hello
are they rare ?
because we can find many ,many 14.5 with steel or brass cases but only brass cased 12.7 (i talk about russian manufacturer ,not the other country who made steel cased 12.7)
never seen any russian lacquered steel cased round for sale

for mpopenker ,the 3.5/10mm FSDS round is made from “7.62x54r” rimless case ? very interessing

Declaring Russian 12.7x108 steel cases as being “rare” would be an understatement I think.
There are also some steel cased dummies from the 1950s if I remember correctly but here again it seems that the cases fom this lot found their fate in being degraded for dummy use only and even these are very hard to find.
While Russian 14.5x114 steel cases are common the steel cases never made it into official service it seems. Unconfirmed info says it is a gun related issue but this is contradicted by steel cases which are made by many other countries for decades already and there all seems to work just fine.

Interesting picture!

What is the story on the two tone 14,5 x 114mm cartridge case?

What is the story on the 4.5/10x54R & the 3.5/10mm x ? (not 54mm) FSDS (fin stabilized discard sabot?) cartridges?

What, if anything, is unique about the two 7.62 x 54mmR & the sectioned 5.45 x 39mm cartridges?

Brian

The image is just from the advertisement for the book and I assume the author just took a couple of things he thought are interesting (and what he may have had on his desk).
There is a whole row of interesting flechette developments from Russia which like in the US did not go anywhere. Just the Russian flechettes were much heavier than the US ones and one can assume they had better ballistics. Also the groove in the flechette centre and the flat on the flechette ogive are quite a nice feature if that can be said about a tool of death.

It is worth to mention that the author of the 4 volumes actually is the guy who developed the Russian Flechettes (or at least quite some of them).

Max, do you think that there might someday be a full or partial English translation of the books? As little as translations of captions and chapter summaries can be very helpful.

Jon, these are 2548 pages in total. Knowing the Russian book market and publication habits I expect hell to freeze first before a translation will be done.
Let alone that they would need one knowing ammunition vocabulary in both languages - then needing a spare hell to freeze again.

Possible, but with even minimal translation I would buy some. I think they would more than double their sales.

I usually buy any good ammo book regardless the language it is in as this is still better than nothing.
But I agree on translations, there are some great books which unfortunately only come in the original language and remain more or less inaccessible to the rest of the world. Just a pitty!

I can get by with Cartridge-Spanish, Cartridge-German, and Cartridge-French, but Russian is beyond me.

I do with most Germanic and slavic languages as with very basic Roman ones.
Finnish, Arab and any Asian is beyond my capacity though in Finnish I know some basic words at least.
But this did not keep me from obtaining Chinese and Finnish books and if there would be one in Hebrew tomorrow I would go for that too and I know a certain guy - some name with J… and C… or so who would hate me then as I would get on his nerves with translation requests. :)

Jonny,
as far as I know, the book in question was published by private person, who somehow managed to scrap necessary funds and invest them into publication. Now he has to recap his investment.

To do even a “summarized” translation someone has to invest in the time and labor of a person who knows English and Russian, as well as guns and ammunition in details (book is highly technical)

Provided that I survive long enough to retire, I probably could try such project; but as of now, I’d better stick to my daytime IT job, as I need to feed my family.

I am in the process of translating my own book from German to English. I know the subject (ballistics) and the terminology in both languages. But it turned out to be a much more exhausting and time consuming undertaking than I ever expected.
Looking at a text may give the impression a translation is quick and easy. But it is more like writing the whole text from scratch in the new language.

Max, tell your family they can eat only after they have translated a page!

I have translated a few small things from Hebrew, and even that was a chore. Even harder was editing the English versions of works translated by others, from German and Polish. It was like working with a translation of a translation!

Jon, at 2500 pages and one per day that will make 7 years of translations :)

I for one would buy all 4 vols just for the photos, but cant seem to find any options for purchasing and shipping outside of Russia.

Drop them an email and discuss. They likely could use some delivery service like EMS or DHL or whatever else.

Kolibri,

If you get anywhere on outside Russia shipping, please post the results on the forum.

Thanks!

Pat