Kynoch cartridges


#1

Please, help me to identify time periods, when each of these cartridges was made.
At least, before or after WWII

Thank you


#2

I am no expert on Kynoch commercial ammo, but the .375 I would say is definitely post war. Kynoch did not use nickel primers until the late 1960s and I suspect the case may actually have been made by Norma.

Others may have more to add!

Regards
TonyE


#3

The onlly thing I would add to Tony’s comment about the .375 is the nickel bullet does not look 60s to 70s era for kynoch but who knows? Its quite possible they were bought in as well.

As for the others, the same comment regarding the nickel bullets applies. I would say pre WW2, but thats just my opinion


#4

Hello,
On the first 7mm there is a third M ! 7mm M
What does that mean?

Regards rené


#5

Mauser A common description in Britain at that time 7mm Mauser.


#6

Hello treshkin,

A Kynoch sketch showing headstamp KYNOCH 7 mm is dated 2-3-04.

Some data taken from Kynoch catalogs:

Kynoch 1901-02: headstamp not illustrated - no soft point loading listed

Kynoch 1902-03: KYNOCH 7 M/M - no soft point loading listed

Kynoch 1911: headstamp not illustrated - Soft Nose Express listed

I’m not sure of the precise date of the KYNOCH 7 mm M headstamp but it was used during the 1920’s (Nobel era). It was also used in some military contracts for South America.


#7

Some info to confuse this issue further, I know of at least 8 hs variations in this calibre:

KYNOCH 7m.m
KYNOCH 7m/m
KYNOCH 7M/M
KYNOCH 7M/M (with a different more fuller “7”)
KYNOCH 7m/mM
KYNOCH 7mm
KYNOCH 7MM
KYNOCH 7mmM

Some are bound to be by Norma. If anyone can explain these varaitions, apart from identifying different production runs, then I would be most appreciative.

I can post images if required.


#8

How can someone tell the 7 mm Mauser loads from the 275 Rigby ones?
I have seen that also the 275 Rigby propietary load used the “7 mm” hds


#9

[quote=“VinceGreen”]The onlly thing I would add to Tony’s comment about the .375 is the nickel bullet does not look 60s to 70s era for kynoch but who knows? Its quite possible they were bought in as well.

As for the others, the same comment regarding the nickel bullets applies. I would say pre WW2, but thats just my opinion[/quote]

I agree entirely Vince. I looked at the CN bullets and thought they were all pre-war, but the nickel primer is a sure sign of post war production. The other two certainly look pre-war.

I used to have a 7mm Mauser back in the late 60s and the occassional (expensive) box of Kynoch that I bought all had GM bullet envelopes. I was fortunate to acquire about 200 rounds of .275 Rigby (headstamped as Pivi says, “7mmM”) and they were indistinguishable to shoot from regular Kynoch 7mm.

I have in the collection a number of Kynoch 7mm military contract rounds for South American countries (Ball, tracer, incendiary etc) and they have a variety of versions of the headstamp. Some, from 1933, have “7M” with no “mm”, whilst others have “7mm” or “7mmM”. There seems to be no system unless it was by customer choice.

Regards
TonyE


#10

The .275 Rigby was the 7x57 in everything but name. Its probably the most blatent example of renaming I can think of.

Rigby was just a small shop and their sales of this ammo was probably not big enough to justify commisioning a seperate production run with their own headstamp so my guess is that they just repacked standard Kynoch ammo into their own boxes most if not all of the time.

I don’t know if there was ever a rigby H/S on .275. Perhaps somebody else can pick that one up.


#11

I know of a “BLAND .275” but not a Rigby or any other “.275”.


#12

Bland is interesting, very interesting, they were a close rival to Rigby and thats both in markets and geographically. They would have had common customers.
People in far flung corners of the empire would sent to the rifle maker for more supplies of ammunition, in much the same way as you might send to Ford for a new carburettor disregarding other suppliers. The brand loyalty was such that customers would not consider alternatives even if common sense dictated otherwise. The bespoke makers held an aura long after their true significance had gone.

This brand loyalty kept the British gun/ ammo makers ticking over for years after their market position dictated that they should have really gone to the wall although on its own it wasn’t enough to save them.

It wasn’t just true for gun/ammo makers either. When I was in West Africa during the late 70s Everybody among the British ex-pats wore Church shoes and Lock hats. Brand was everything. some things were just taken for granted


#13

Speaking of British brand loyalty, back in the late 1960s I worked with a guy who drove a vintage Bentley. He had to do most of his own routine service work on it, as no local mechanic in the immediate area at that time would touch it, and it was a three hour drive one way to the nearest Bentley/Rolls dealer. He insisted on using some brand of British motor oil for it, don’t remember the brand though. His feeling must have been shared by other owners, as he had the oil (and other Bentley parts, filters,etc.) shipped to him from some importer in New York City.

I just did a quick web search on the internet and apparently this practice still continues. There is at least one vendor who specializes in selling oils and lubricants recommended for Rolls/Bentley, and stocks a number of motor oil brands I never heard of (Lubro, Pentosin, and BMW) at about $10/quart. I guess that’s probably the cheapest thing you can buy for a Rolls.


#14

Would that be Castrol R by any chance? Castor oil based rater than mineral. A Rolls is not that expensive these days, with a 6.8 litre V8 engine and 12 to the gallon ( 8 with a heavy foot) a lot of people have been disuaded. Gas over here is about $9 a gallon The engine is actually, since 1958 a much modified Buick lump.


#15

I honestly don’t remember after 40+ years. I do remember that some years back, US engines used castor oil during their “Break-In” period, then switched to petroleum-based motor oil. There is no break-in period for more modern gasoline engines, at least I do not think so.

It’s been a very long time since I’ve seen a Rolls or Bentley in my part of the world, even in the bigger cities like Dallas or Houston. I have an interesting story about my experience with six Rolls-Royces back in the mid-1980s, but it’s not appropriate here.


#16

Thanks all for great comments and info!


#17

Pulling this back onto an ammo theme though, never under estimate the power of brand loyalty. Even down through the years. When kynoch was in decline the favoured alternative was norma in this country, among the sort of people who shoot in tweed jackets.

Go into the best gunshops like Holland and Holland in London even today and ask for a couple of boxes of .270, .30-06 or what ever and I can virtually guarantee you they will bring out Norma and they wouldn’t even consider stocking anything else.