Large bullet id help


#1

What is this?? Its big. I can get specs later if needed.
Says-… 37-85 PDP 69 216 on headstamp


#2

Hello,
This is a french 37mm Hotchkiss Mle 1878. The case lenght is 94mm, and it was made by “Pinsard Denis de Paris” in 1916


#3

Laurent

I have seen the manufacturer spelled Pinchart Deny, Paris. But, I would assume that you know better than anyone else would. Can you confirm the correct spelling?

jlnel

The headstamp reads PD.Ps. That is an unusual looking projectile. Have you had it out of the case? It does not appear to have a rotating band. I’m not sure what the loose ring is? And the brass tip doesn’t look right.

Laurent, what do you think??

Ray


#4

Hello Ray,
Now I have a doubt,
I was thinking that PDPs was for " Parc d’artillerie de Paris",
but on municion.org they said that PDPS stand for “Pinsard Denis Paris”,
All these kind of cartridges I had seen had the same kind of headstamp and I doubt that they were all made by the same factory (Pinsard Denis).
Yes the projectile is unusual and I had never see this kind of loading.
Laurent


#5

Laurent

I also thought that PD.Ps was Parc d’artillerie de Paris. I think there is a reference in an old IAA JOURNAL that says that. But, I was told a few years ago that there was no such factory in Paris but in Versailles instead, which would have used the headstamp P.Vs, or PD.Vs. So, I’m still not sure which is correct.

Ray


#6

I just got a few of them, i will take more pics and post. A couple of them the projectile comes out and may have gotten switched before i got them? The pic i posted, the projectile has a loose brass band, looks like there should be a second by the grooves but it is missing… Pics by sunday, thanks guys!


#7

Ray, you have the good spelling: it is Pinchart Deny, Paris.

Domi


#8

With the date of 2 16 it could be for the M1915 infantry gun.


#9

jlnel

Here’s one that I have. A double copper rotating band and a simple point detonating fuze.

Ray


#10

Ill have to post the pics monday night, i forgot them at work.


#11

For years, according to several misinterpretations, these PdPs rounds were said to come from a so-called “Parc d’Artillerie de Paris”…

This facilities were only storage onees, and never made ammunition

As usual, wrong or unexact info was printed and reprinted everywhere, without the smallest move to check it, even in very serious publications or books…

So Etablissements PINSART-DENIS in Paris were the actual makers, and any other meaning should be discarded from files.

Cheers!

PR


#12

What sort of projectile is this in jlnel’s round?

Is it a regular one with a replica brass fuze?


#13

Like i said i will post more details and pics if a can on monday. Here is the lot i bought, mainly cause of the lil Kynoch 600 Nitro on the left.


#14

The two longer ones (138mm) on the right appear to be U.S. 1 Pdr Heavy with base fuzed Common projectiles. The 94mm cartridges need case headstamps and any markings on the projectile to properly ID them. I’m still at a loss about the projectiles with the brass noses.

Ray


#15

Here is the base of projectile. I can not see any markings on the projectile to help identify.


#16

The base looks typical of the 37/85 projectiles. I can’t tell from the angle, but does it have 2 grooves where the double rotating bands would have been?

Still looking for something on the brass tip.


#17

Here is a side view. No markings anywhere. It seems to have the two grooves and one of the rings can be seen that has come apart. The brass tip has almost a smooth transition to projectile, no play, cant be unscrewed( as far as i can tell).


#18

That is definitely a French 37/85 projectile. The rotating bands have been removed, possibly for the copper.

My guess is that it has been fooled with. The brass ring is most likely something that was added to keep the projectile in the case and make it look authentic. The brass tip was probably made and screwed on because the original fuze was missing.

That’s my guess, for now. Maybe someone who knows more than I do can correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve been known to do that.

Ray