Large machine gun dummy round and links


#1

This little beastie arrived in the post today along with a couple of smaller calibre drill cartridges. As it doesn’t fit into my collection (in any way) I have no clue what it’s for and I’d appreciate any information anyone might have.

The cartridge is headstamped ‘3 65’ marked in a shallow rebate in the base around the primer. The case has 4 shallow flutes running along the body 90 degrees apart. The tip of the bullet is discoloured, not marked on purpose. The rim diameter is 26.9mm. The case length is 113.6mm. Total overall length is 154mm and the bullet diameter is 14.9mm.

Peter


#2

Hi Peter
I think it is the 12,7x108 (USSR) for a infantry support weapen.

regards
Gyrojet


#3

Your cartridges are the 14.5 by 114m/m Russian, also known as 14.5m/m KPV and other designations. The links are probably for the 14.5m/m KPV machine gun designed by Vladimirov and adopted in the USSR in 1949, and China, as 14.5m/m Type 56, in 1956.

With your stated bullet diameter of 14.9 m/m, it cannot be the 12.7 Russian machine gun cartridge, in my opinion.

There were aqlso two anti-tank rifles for this cartridge, the PTRD 41 and the PTRS 41. I really cannot define the differences between the two. There may have been other weapons for it. My familiarity with military weapons above .50 caliber, other than infantry crew-served weapons of the American Army during the era I served, is poor. My interest has always been in small-arms, as generally defined by the American military (.50 and under).

Your cartridge cases were made at Arsenal 3, which is the Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant, founded at Ulyanovaak, Russia, in 1931. The headstamp does not tell us who manufactured the complete dummy cartridge. However, my specimen of this dummy round is headstamped " * 3 * 65 and is a brass-washed steel case. The fact that both yours and my own round, the only one I have other than DDR dummy rounds in my DDR collection, are from Ulyanovsk may be an indication that the were the plant, or one of the plants, assigned to make dummy rounds in this caliber. Conjecture only on my part, of course.


#4

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Your cartridges are the 14.5 by 114m/m Russian, also known as 14.5m/m KPV and other designations. The links are probably for the 14.5m/m KPV machine gun designed by Vladimirov and adopted in the USSR in 1949, and China, as 14.5m/m Type 56, in 1956.

With your stated bullet diameter of 14.9 m/m, it cannot be the 12.7 Russian machine gun cartridge, in my opinion.

There were aqlso two anti-tank rifles for this cartridge, the PTRD 41 and the PTRS 41. I really cannot define the differences between the two. There may have been other weapons for it. My familiarity with military weapons above .50 caliber, other than infantry crew-served weapons of the American Army during the era I served, is poor. My interest has always been in small-arms, as generally defined by the American military (.50 and under).

Your cartridge cases were made at Arsenal 3, which is the Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant, founded at Ulyanovaak, Russia, in 1931. The headstamp does not tell us who manufactured the complete dummy cartridge. However, my specimen of this dummy round is headstamped " * 3 * 65 and is a brass-washed steel case. The fact that both yours and my own round, the only one I have other than DDR dummy rounds in my DDR collection, are from Ulyanovsk may be an indication that the were the plant, or one of the plants, assigned to make dummy rounds in this caliber. Conjecture only on my part, of course.[/quote]

John,

I agree with your identification of the calibre of the dummy cartridge but that is not a Soviet KPV/Chinese Type 56 belt. The KPV/56 uses a closed pocket belt in which the rounds have to be pulled out to the rear. These links resemble the belts for the 12.7x108mm DShK and NSV guns.

gravelbelly


#5

DShKM = Degtyarev Shpagin-Large caliber modernized

NSV = Nikitin Sokolov Volkov

gyrojet


#6

My apologies for being a bit careless about the headstamp. I’ve given it a rub over with the proverbial oily rag and it actually reads * 3 * 65

Both case and head are magnetic. This belt is unusual (to me… an ignoramus on the subject) because the links are permanently joined, they don’t rely on having cartridges in the links to keep the elements together.

Here is a picture of the other side of the belt;

And here is a detail of two of the links;

Many thanks for all the information to date.

Peter


#7

John, the PTRD 41 was a single shot bolt-action design, while the PTRS 41 was semi-automatic and fed from a 5 Round En-bloc clip. The SKS action is based on a miniaturised version of the PTRS action.


#8

Is there any sort of date stamp on the links? The KPV and its variants feed from a disintegrating belt that falls apart into 10-round segments.


#9

The belt is a Chinese one, I just do not remember the weapon designation.


#10

Ok, I looked it up. The designation is:

QJG02 14.5mm Anti-Aircraft Machine Gun

The “02” is the year of introduction.


#11

[quote=“EOD”]Ok, I looked it up. The designation is:

QJG02 14.5mm Anti-Aircraft Machine Gun

The “02” is the year of introduction.[/quote]

And I cut and pasted that designation into Google and got the Chinese website of the gun system. You can click on the picture with a belt in it to enlarge the picture, it’s the same belt.

gravelbelly