Last German WWII headstamp


#1

I got some late war 7.92x33 Kurz and thought “What is the last (datewise) known headstamp?”. Well, I don’t know. Anyone?


#2

Vlad, there might be higher lot numbers.


#3

I mean any calibre. I guess I am asking for the name of the last operational ammo factory before the surrender.


#4

I only have a small collection of kurz rounds (12) all with different headstamps, the two 1945 in my collection are attached:

I believe these are the last lot numbers/headstamps:
aux 45 14
de 45 8
dou 45 9
fva 45 9
hla 45 5
oxo 45 5


#5

Since the lot number is not related to a date, I don’t believe there is any way of telling what the last German headstamp is. Even the packets do not have a date. I don’t think the various manufacturers even had the same lot sizes, perhaps someone has some information on this. Also remember the headstamp only shows the year and lot number of the case, not the load.

Examples:
In 1941 dou (Povazske Strojarne in Slovakia) produced 104 seperate lots in 9mm all in brass case.

The same year Geco (dnh) produced three lots in brass case, one lot in copper washed steel case and one lot in lacquered steel case. Geco was one of the larger producers of 9mm 08 cases so I have to believe they ran larger lots.

Both dou and Sellier & Bellot (ak) continued to load ammunition with German headstamps after the German occupation had ended. I have a number of boxes with 1945 cases and Czech labels and post-war loading dates including a box with dou '45 cases and a loading date of 1946. Maybe that is a candidate for the Last German WWII headstamp loaded, but not by Germans (or German controlled factories)

I think you have a question without an answer.

Cheers,

Lew


#6

The north of Germany was the last bit of German soil to be occupated in WWII (with minor exceptions). Located there was the DWM plant at Lübeck operating under the code “tko” at that time.
I guess they made the last rounds in a self-determined Germany.


#7

If DWM, Lübeck (P413-edq-tko) was the last ammunition plant to be occupied by the Allied Forces at the end of WWII in Europe as EOD states, that narrows down the field for the last German 7.9mm headstamp of the war.

Here is a drawing of a dated 300 round container (packhülse 88) with the last known loading lot number. Also shown is a S.m.E. cartridge with the last case lot number.

I don’t know if the two go together. I have the cartridge but I don’t have a box or sleeve (or case!) that contain cartridges.


#8

Here one without red printing:


#9

EOD - are there any cartridges in your box? If there is can you tell me what the headstamp is?


#10

Phil, I gave it away some time ago. Asked the new owner but he will need some time to find it again. Once we have it I will let you know.


#11

I don’t recall ever seeing a German 7.9 box label with the full date stamped on it like that.
I wonder if that wasn’t done by someone at the factory who know this would be the last lot
out to door of the factory, just for the sake of preserving the date historically. Has anyone
else ever seen another dated label. It is certainly not part of the original label, since EOD shows the same one with out this rubber-stamped date.

Edit: This time I found the two little green arrows people have talked of, clicked on them, then hit the “refresh” and “try again” option and got on.

2nd Edit: Even the edit required that I go thru that. Just hitting “submit” of the edited response netted me the “timed-out” message again.


#12

John – The stamped loading date is not that unusual on the 300, 900 and 1500 round labels. They are scarcer on 15 round labels but still exist. Usually the date is only stamped on the 900/1500 round container label and not on the 300 and 15 round labels inside.
Here are a few examples.



#13

I just noticed that the bne S.m.E. label has a loading date four days after the tko label!! So that throws my theory out the window! Back to square one! There is also a loading lot 1945 bne 12 which would be after the one shown (1945 bne 11) but the 300 round label I have a picture of has no date stamp. I think I will go smoke a cigar!!

bne was the code for Metallwerk Odertal GmbH, Odertal, Post Lautaberg, Hartz,
Germany. What part of Germany was it located at?


#14

Phil, that is a bit north of the centre of Germany near Göttingen. No idea how the situ was there in late war.


#15

EOD - Thanks. I had not noted that before. Interesting that with all the coding going on with these labels, to keep information out of the hands of the allies should materiel be captured, that they would stamp a “clear” date on this stuff. Oh well, whose to figure out the mentality there during the war. We had, at our store collection, a very late Walther PP with the “ac” code on the right side of the slide, and no markings on the left side. Should be to conceal manufacturer (silly on the face of it with a famous pistol like that), but the rather crude, press-in checkering wood grips still had the “Walther Banner” at the top! Idiotic, but true.

Edit" By the way - my postings are going thru the correct, normal procedure now again.


#16

Some years ago John Munnery had late war SME LANGEs by TKO in brass cases. Does anyone remember the date ? I can’t find mine.


#17

It was the 1th lot.

Phil, made a scan of the head stamps from the 8 th box lot for you.
Inside lot 2,3,4 and 7.

Rgds
Dutch


#18

@ Lew,

Posted it before. It is the latest date in my collection.

i172.photobucket.com/albums/w31/ … 1/Lew1.jpg


#19

It was the 1th lot.

Phil, made a scan of the head stamps from the 8 th box lot for you.
Inside lot 2,3,4 and 7.

Rgds
Dutch

[/quote]

The ones which I mention were in BRASS CASE.


#20

DrSchmittCSAEOD – Dutch’s scan shows the regular S.m.E. heastamps that are in his S.m.E. box of tko lot 8. I had asked about what headstamps were in the box.

His answer, “It was the 1th lot” is for you. The headstamp on these rounds is tko S* 1 45. A pretty scarce animal and the only German S.m.E. Lang that was loaded in brass cases. Note: I see the new German 7.9mm book has added an additional S.m.E. Lang round loaded in a brass case (auy S* 1 45). That makes two known instead of one

My example is not in the best condition but with this round any condition is good!!

edited to add new headstamp