Last known German P08 headstamp from WWI


#1

This is the latest German 9mm P08 headstamp I know of from WWI.I only know of two rounds, but I’m sure there are others out there. Has anyone ever seen the box for this round?

Cheers,
Lew

MW  1  19


#2

Lew,
I checked the 9mm listing from the old Peter Skala collection and there was an MW 19 7 with black primer annulus with magnetic bullet.
regards
Daan
www.cartridgecollector.net


#3

I would almost bet that Peter’s MW 19 7 was actually “MW 19 1” with the
hooked one mistaken for a “7.” I could be wrong, but this headstamp
is simply to rare to have been manufactured for seven months, or even for
just two, January and July, at least in my opinion. It is a very easy mistake to
make, been there, done that.

John Moss


#4

Lew,
What about the DWA headstamps? The MW 19 date is actually not
WWI, but Post-WWI, made after the armistice, so in that regard, it is
in the same category as the DWA rounds from 1920 and 1921.

John Moss


#5

Daan,
I bought the Peter Skala collection and I think that is where I got mine. It is 1 and not 7.

John,
By the title I meant “Headstamps from WWI”, which includes MW but the DWA was not a WWI headstamp. Also, the combat ended on 11 Nov 1918 so there were other post-armistice headstamps from December 1918, but an armistice wasn’t the offial end of the war any more than it was in Korea. The peace treaties were not signed until June 1919.

Sorry for my confusing wording.

Cheers,
Lew


#6

Thanks Lew,
I will amend the records accordingly, even on a list it is still an amazing collection that Peter managed to put together over the years.
Regards
Daan
www.cartridgecollector.net


#7

Lew - for me, the end of a war is when the belligerents officially
stop killing each other, not when the technicalities of a written treaty
are wrangled out. Am aware of the various ramifications
of the treaties for both WWI and Korea. I see your point on the
MW headstamp spanning the actual war, and after the cessation
of hostilities, however.

John


#8

Why do you think it is made in WW1
As far I know the production stopped in November 1918.

Interesting is that also a 7,9 Mauser from MW is known with a head stamp from January 1919.

In the sight from a 7,9 collector some company’s produced until Feb. 1919

Rgds


#9

My latest seen WW 1 box is from Oktober 1918
WK I PPR 2 L 18   08

Norbert


#10

Dutch
I add a picture from of a box from 20.10.1919
Pr 6 L 18

Norbert


#11

Norbert, this is not the problem.
There was a lot of not packed ammunition all over Germany these day’s.

Why did they still make cases in 1919. The war was over on Nov. 11th 1918.
Unfortunately I can only show 7,9 Mauser examples.

1919-1 (2)


#12

Do not forget that since November 1918 we had a revolution going in Germany which lasted till spring of 1919 (if I am correct). Also Germany was attacked in 1919 by Polish troops.
These 2 events sure could be the reason why ammunition production was kept up.
I do not know how this squares in with the capitulation in WW1 and how fast the Allies were in Germany to implement the Versailles dictate.


#13

November 1918 was an armistice. Here are some definitions of armistice:

An armistice is a formal agreement of warring parties to stop fighting. It is not necessarily the end of a war, since it may constitute only a cessation of hostilities while an attempt is made to negotiate a lasting peace.

When two sides of a war need a break from killing each other, they agree to an armistice, a temporary battle timeout. An armistice isn’t permanent, but it’s usually a sign that both sides want to give peace a chance.

Definition of armistice - an agreement made by opposing sides in a war to stop fighting for a certain time; a truce.

People are entitled to their own definitions. These are the kind of definition I used above.


#14

I don’t think there was any question in anyone’s minds that
the Armistice, brought about pretty much by the capitulation
of Germany, etc., was going to result in a treaty, even though
that treaty was one of the direct results of events leading to the
Second WW in Europe. The same true for the truce in Korea,
after over a year of grueling talks with the communist representatives
at Panmoujan (probably spelled wrong - don’t feel like looking it up).

But, you are right. We all have our definitions for certain historical
events. I apply the definitions to the actual historical events, not to
theory or formal definitions of the words. Again, I am well aware of
the definitions.

john M.


#15

As EOD pointed out, we had a civil war going on in Germany, fought by a number of semi-private armies and in addition to that armed conflict with newly independent Poland. There doubtless were a lot of parties interested in buying ammunition.
Versailles treaty was signed on 28 June 1919. The International Military Control Commission for the oversight of German disarmament first arrived in Germany on 15 Sep 1919.


#16

Jochem, the timeline you gave here makes perfect sense then.


#17

And we must not forget, the decision to capitulate fell into a period when orders had been placed with a delivery period that had not ended at that particular point of time. A few dozen of million of rounds were not produced within a month.

Hans