Late war brass cased 7.9mm Mauser


#1

I have recently begun making a detailed record of my war era 7.9mm Mauser. While going through them, I came accross a couple of late war brass cased rounds of s.S. Patronen with a very substantial neck crimp.
The bullet is magnetic, but the case is not.
The headstamps both read - hlb S* 5 44
…primer annulus is green.

Are these rounds at all strange or uncommon? I am not particularly well versed in the 7.9mm cartridge, but I was led to believe that the Germans were using steel cases pretty much exclusively by 1944. Also, does the substantial neck crimp indicate that these rounds were intended for use in a machinegun?

Thanks,
-Allen


#2

Dan Kent’s book states that these cartridges were intended for use in the
"WB-81" gun pod. This pod had three MG-81z machine guns which fired at an extremely high rate of fire. The extra crimp was used in case the gun had to be re-charged after a misfire, so the projectile would not get stuck in the barrel.

Brass cases were preferred by the Luftwaffe for their increased reliability compared to the steel case.

AKMS


#3

Thanks AKMS! These rounds are even more intriguing than I thought. It is interesting that the Luftwaffe still had enough clout that late in the war to demand brass cases for their 7.9mm ammo.
Do you know if they are a rarity nowadays? I had never seen any before, but, then again, there are a lot of rounds I have yet to see in person.


#4

I used to collect 7,9 Mauser cartridges. I once had the opportunity to sort through about 3,000 rounds of mixed type and headstamp WWII German surplus. Out of this batch, I found exactly ONE of these s.S. cartridges with the extra crimps. From what I can tell, these are not super rare, but not that common either. I think I sold mine many years later for $10.00.

I think that the Luftwaffe had a lot of clout through the war because of Herman Goring…

AKMS


#5

Once I had a 7,92 mauser with incendiary-explosive bullet that was brass cased and was made in 1944.So I think that special purposes cartridges were still produced with brass cases in 1944 and 1945 too.


#6

AKMS - Wow, 3000 rounds! That must have been an all day affair! These two rounds just happened to be in one of five boxes I bought from a surplus dealer several years ago. The boxes were all repacked with mixed headstamps, I wrote a post about them before.
I’ve really only recently started to appreciate the 7.9mm ammo in my collection and to be honest, most of it I have simply lucked into. I got about 20rds of B-Patrone several years ago that a friend of mine just gave to me. …And my Dad recently gave me a wooden box full of old ammo, including dozens of rounds of 7.9mm Kurz, that he found in the garage of a house he just bought.

Pivi - You could be right. But, aside from these two rounds, all of my brass cased 7,9mm is dated 1942 or earlier.


#7

Do brass cased 8 mm kurtz ammo of the WWII era exist?


#8

Yes, I saw a picture. I believe it was a hlc 45.


#9

Some other 7,9 cartridges with a double crimp.
From left sS-SME-SMK-SMK L`spur.
There is also a B-partone know with double crimp.
Kent mention in his book a PMK new art with double crimp but I never seen one.

451kr.


#10

I have a 7,92 x 57 round with standard crimp,copper washed steel case and green annulus around the primer.No laquered ball.
Headstamps:1 39 P334 Xf1
Could you tell me what kind of load is it?


#11

Pivi,

it is the standard sS ball. But you knew that!?


#12

That’s because the man who sold me this cartridge cleaned it very hard,so he could had erased some laquer from the bullet.
I have also a steel cased 7,92 mm wich was cleaned with diluent.If it had had some laquer in the primer or on the bullet the diluent certainly erased it


#13

Green pa is always sS, you cannot fail.


#14

Pivi - the nformation given you on the brass-cased 7.92 x 33mm Kurzpatrone on this forum is basically correct. I have a fired case with headstamp hlc - St 2 45. Yes, despite the steel-case headstamp, it is brass. Other headstamp dates are known, including with the “S*” brass case designation. I am not sure if all are “hlc” (Zieh- und Stanswerk G.m.b.H., Schleuslingen/Th


#15

John, I’m glad to see that you made it home at a reasonable hour! Have a Happy Easter, even if it will be a bit late. I hope you will soon be able to post that new .32.


#16

Here are some headstamps for brass 8 x 33. It is hla -

.


#17

Jon - won’t have any of my ammo from the show for two or three weeks. Then will definitely scan the headstamp and post it. Am dying to know if anyone knows who made it. Nothing more about it from me until then!