Legal….Illegal


#1

On the application form for visiting the International show in Germany is written;

Please take care about the German law KWKG (Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz) and Waffengesetz. Any Explosive, Tracer, Incendiary, AP and mixtures of that ammo, are forbidden. The show organisation is not responsible for violations against German laws.

Here in the forum a gentleman is offering this kind of cartridges.

I don’t know if he is familiar with the German laws.

Last year a person in Germany became 6 months in prison and a fine of €1800 ) about $2000 US for the possession of one 7,62 tracer round. A souvenir of his time serving in the German army.

Now, I think that before offering these items here in the forum he should inform himself about the laws in the country he is visiting.

Dutch.


#2

Well Done Dutch!

Thanks for your post.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Yes - different laws in different countries (even different regions in the same country) sure make our hoby ‘interesting’.

I can totally see why some people collect stamps or bottle caps…


#4

Thank you.
Thanks for the information because I respect the laws.
I closed the sale anyway and I will neutralize them.


#5

Hello,

just a further note…
As Germany is (in parts unfortunatelly) a part of the EU, it doesnt matter, if you will neutralize them by taking the propellant out…
Since 1.7.2017 the possession of a BULLET alone, which contains an AP_core, a Tracer, an Incendiary load, an explosive load, or a mixture thereof, is forbidden without license from the FEDERAL POLICE (BKA)…
This means, People which had before collected inert ammo with this bullets on, are all oblieged to ask for a license to keep their property…it does in no means, allows the further collecting of such goods, even if they get the license to keep their collection…
The Problem is, that the federal Police is NOT issuing licenses to foreigners, as the federal Police issues only licenses to Germans or persons, which live legally here, because the control of the law, is in the Hands of the local authorithis…at the living Point of the collector in Germany.
The BKA issues the license for the “forbidden” goods, only if the local Police gives the ok…
and that is in this case of a foreigner just not possible…

I do not knew, how collecting or Holding Meetings will be go further with that law in power…

Many of us Germans have BKA-licenses, but we can give away (or receive) a forbidden good (ammo or bullets) only to/from holders of a BKA-License, …A collectors license for (normal) ammo from the local auth. is NOT enough…, if AP, Incend., Tracer or Explosive bullets or ammo is involved…
Sincerely
PP


#6

May I ask does this cover larger items, for example 20mm Hispano HE or AP or 12.7/50Cal? Thanks in advance.


#7

The law applies to small arms ammunition.
20mm and larger have to be inert (like HE) or demilled (like solid or hard core APs).


#8

12,7 or 50BMG a.s.o. are considered small arms ammo, and the bullets thereof are restricted, if they contain any of the mentioned materials.

From 20mm onwards, the bullets alone are “Warmaterial”, if they are “full”…
Means , if the dangerous contents are removed (HE-Shell empty, incendiary Shells empty a.s.o., they are ok (up to yet…you never knew, what our good “overgovernment” , the EÚ decides next…
The pure AP BULLETS 20m and above are tricky in Germany…as Long they can be used, they are forbidden.
People here have made cuts into the driving band(s), making them useless to fire, as the rotating band will go away on live fire, rendering the bullet to useless for combat…
Up to yet, their is no official rulings about this specific AP-bullets or inert cases with such AP-bullets above 19,99mm, on them…
The german Club is working on clarifications, but ist time-consuming and we are not enough People, to get the ministry interested in…means we have no political power…and influence to get recognized…

PP


#9

What else would be new from the Vaterland the word es ist Verboten still has top value but I should not
crow thinks look pretty miserable on this end also these cartridge collection in the not far future will only
be fit for the garbage cans except perhaps the USA.
Sherryl


#10

Just some more info:

as mentioned the Germans are Special in this rulings…
If their is a Meeting in the Netherland, or in Switzerland, (or Czech republic…Lew knews more about that) you will get usual licenses to bring in ammunition or “forbidden” bullets, as this countries do not differenciate between this types of bullets.
If you get a licnese, you have to follow dutch or swiss or czech rules…but this is ONLY good, as Long you are coming in or leaving directly to, or from that Country…means you cannot travel trough Germany with a dutch or swiss or czech license…but as Long as you flying in and out from switzerland or Netherland, or Czech republic everything will be ok…but Switzerland has Special rulings about certain ammotypes.
So if you go there, inform you about the specific rulings for the Meetings…
If you have questions, feel free, to ask.
Better save than sorry…

PP