Listing of shotshells calibers


#1

I haven’t been very succesfull with my last call to shotshells collectors.
It was : “If you have a scarce shotshell caliber in your collection, please tell me which one”.

So let’s try in another way !

Here above is a first listing of all the different shotshells calibers I know.
If you know some others you are welcome to drop me a note.
No variations, only calibers.
No mortar propeller or engine starter
I will put another listing soon with more primitive shells
Thanks
Jean-Pierre


#2

J-P
I’m certanly no expert on shot shells, but wasn’t the Wingo Rimfire a 20cal (5mm) not a 25cal (6.5mm) as you show?


#3

I agree with Tailgunner on the Wingo, unless there is an experimental 25 caliber.

All the boxes and data I have ever seen on the Wingo refer to it as 5mm Wingo, not .20 caliber.

Do you intend to include shot loads in pistol and rifle calibers? I ask this because of the inclusion on your list of the Everlasting cases which were primarily rifle cartridges which were available in shot loads.


#4

Hi !

  1. First, thank you for your answers.
  2. I agree with the Wingo, it is a typing mistake !
  3. I will not include shot loads for pistols and rifles.
  4. About Everlasting, I have no info on the gun !
    Where these ctges designed for a special non riffled gun? In this case I will put them.
    In the other case, I won’t.
  5. Info needed if you have some.
    Jean-Pierre

#5

The Everlasting cartridges were not used in Everlasting guns. Instead they were just a heavy walled cartridge that could be reloaded almost indifiently. Almost any Ballard or Stevens rifle could be ordered chambered for Everlasting cases, but, in most cases could also fire normal factory thin walled cartridges. The .44/50 and .44/65 Stevens Everlasting cartridges were primarily shot shells used in the Stevens New Model Pocket Shot Gun No.39 and in the Stevens Hunters Pet Shot Gun. Both of these models were smooth bored. A Stevens Combined Hunters Pet Rifle and Shot Gun was also available with one rifled barrel and one smooth bore barrel. All of these models were available chambered in .38/35, .38/45, .44/50 and .44/65. The .38/35 and .38/45 were available in both bulleted and shot loads.

The best reference I am aware of for the guns is “Single Shot Rifles” by James J. Grant, Pubished in 1947. It has been reprinted several times. The copy I have is the 5th Printing, 1982.


#6

Hello,
Could someone please explain the Lancaster named cartridges and how they fit in to this?
Were the Lancasters just variations on the “standard” cartridges or were they distinctly different.
I have dimensional information for Lancaster named cartridges ranging from 10mm to 8 bore.
It is my understanding that some were for rifled arms and some were for smoothbore (and some for Paradox). Case construction was either wrapped brass foil or solid drawn brass.
Your expertise and insights are welcomed.

Thanks in advance

Brian


#7
  1. When the shotshells cases were all brass made, the Germans called them lancaster.
    All the German ones were for smoothbore, even the short cases (30 and 40 mm instead of 63, 70, 75).
    The short cases were made to shoot balls and were called Kugelpatronen.

  2. In England sometimes they call the all brass cases lancaster also.

  3. The all brass cases can be heavy (massive in German), or light, or brass foil (this case is only in England).

  4. A paradox ctge is nothing more than a regular all brass shotshell of a regular gauge with a special bullet.
    The paradox gun was rifled at the end of the barrel.


#8

Thank you jean-pierre.
I look forward to your book.

Brian


#9

Jean-Pierre,
Have you considered the .44XL and .38XL shot cartridges, made for a shotgun by Hopkins and Allen (I think)?


#10

Guy–Also used in the Marble’s Gamegetter.


#11

Jean-Pierre,

Being a rimfire collector I don’t actively pursue Shotgun shells. There are a few Rimfires you don’t have on your list. There is the 20 ga Ballard rimfire. Also in John Barber’s book “The Rimfire Cartridge” he shows a picture of a 16 Ga ballard (I’ve never seen one but there are alot of things I haven’t seen!). One other rimfire is the .25 Mossberg Mo-Skeet Shot.

Paul


#12

Ron,
Technically, those intended for the Marbles Gamegetter would be .44 Gamegetter cartridge, which was loaded with a round ball. The .44 XL and the Gamegetter use the same case as the .44-40, as well as I can tell, so the three cartridges are probably interchangable as far as fitting the chamber goes, but probably shouldn’t be fired interchangeably.


#13

For Guy and Ron :

Please put pictures of what you call 44XL and 38 XL.
If they are what I believe (very very long shot container), I do not think they can be shot in a regular gun chambered in 44 or 38. Right ?

Thanks
JP


#14

For Rimfire :

20 ga Ballard rimfire ? have you info on it ? Picture, catalogue page, book page talking of it ?
16 Ga ballard rimfire ? Same question

25 Mossberg Mo-Skeet Shot ? Same question.
Is this one a new ctge (after WWII) ?

I am poor on US documentation.

Thanks
JP


#15

jean-pierre,

A 44 XL is on the far right of the picture. Sorry, I do not have a 38 XL in my collection or I would have scanned it for you.

Shot shells are WAY out of my field of knowledge and way out of my field of interest, but the mention of the XL’s made me think of the Thompson Hot Shot rounds. Would not the 44 and 357 Hot Shot count as shot shells? I know they were designed for a pistol, but it used a special choked smoothbore barrel if IRCC. Two variation (different shot size) of the Thompson 44 Hot Shot are in the middle flanking a Hot Shot shot capsule. Like I said, I am not a shot shell expert and not really interested in them, this is just a suggestion.

Also, I don


#16

[quote=“Sht_LE”]jean-pierre,

A 44 XL is on the far right of the picture. Sorry, I do not have a 38 XL in my collection or I would have scanned it for you.

Shot shells are WAY out of my field of knowledge and way out of my field of interest, but the mention of the XL’s made me think of the Thompson Hot Shot rounds. Would not the 44 and 357 Hot Shot count as shot shells? I know they were designed for a pistol, but it used a special choked smoothbore barrel if IRCC. Two variation (different shot size) of the Thompson 44 Hot Shot are in the middle flanking a Hot Shot shot capsule. Like I said, I am not a shot shell expert and not really interested in them, this is just a suggestion.

Also, I don


#17

I believe the 44 XL and 38 XL were originally intended to be fired in a particular gun, the XL shotgun. I believe both cartridges can be fired in other guns, as can a number of the cartridges on your list. Here’s the 38 XL with its box.


#18

[quote=“Guy Hildebrand”]. I believe both cartridges can be fired in other guns, as can a number of the cartridges on your list.
[/quote]
THANK YOU First.
Which other cartridges ??


#19

[quote]Jean-Pierre wrote:

Which other cartridges ??[/quote]

I may be making some incorrect assumptions regarding the specific cartridges that you are referring to, but I believe the 12mm French thick rim in your centerfire list is usually encountered loaded with a bullet, the 9mm pinfire is available in shot and ball, the metric rimfires you list are also available in shot and ball, and the everlasting Maynards should probably be removed from the list, as has been pointed out earlier, as they were ball loads rather than shot.

What is your verdict on the 38 XL now?


#20

Jean-Peirre,

I don’t have any information from primary sources on the 16 and 20 ga Ballard rimfires. On page 115 of John Barbers book “The Rimfire Cartridge” he has a picture of a 20 Gauge Ballard Shot long and short case as well as a picture of a 16 Gauge Ballard Shot. Since it’s copyrighted I don’t think I can post it on this forum. What I have been told it was used in a Merrimack Arms / Ballard shotgun in the late 1860’s. The way I understand it a percussion nipple could be attached and the shell reloaded then fired using a percussion cap. I believe it was mentioned in John Dutcher’s book on Ballard single shots but I don’t have a copy.

The Mossberg 25 rimfire shot ("Mini SKeet?) was reported to be used in a smooth bore for miniture skeet shooting. They copper cases and are headstamped with an impressed “U” (Remington/UMC). It may not fit your definition of shotgun shell since it’s based on the .25 Stevens Long RF.

Paul