Logged my 8mm Kurz collection


#1

Whilst procrastinating - putting off jobs I really should be doing, I decided to log my 8mm kurz collection.

It’s conservative by comparison to the collectors here, but for those interested:
I have good amounts of each head-stamp - so if someone has some that are not here and wants to trade individual rounds, feel free to PM me.
Or share your head-stamps here -

Listing of my collection of wartime 7.92x33mm Kurz ammunition by manufacturer and date/batch:

Munitionsfabriken (formally Sellier & Bellot), Prague with factory in Vlasim,
Czechoslovakia, (Manufactured under German occupation):
ak st 6 44
ak st 7 44
ak st 10 44
ak-st 12 44
ak-st 1 45
ak-st 2 45
ak-st 3 45
ak st 4 45
ak-st 5 45
ak st 6 45

Polte, Werk Magdeburg, Poltestr. u. Fichtestr.,Magdeburg, Germany:
aux 7,9 9 43
aux 7,9 18 43
aux 11 44 st
aux 12 44 st
aux 14 44 st
aux 15 44 st
aux 17 44 st
aux 20 44 st
aux 21 44 st
aux 22 44 st
aux 26 44 st
aux 28 44 st
aux 29 44 st
aux 30 44 st
aux 31 44 st
aux 32 44 st
aux 34 44 st
aux st 1 44
aux st 4 44
aux st 22 44
aux st 33 44
aux st 34 44
aux st 37 44
aux st 41 44
aux st 43 44
aux st 45 44
aux st 47 44
aux st 48 44
aux st 49 44
aux st 64 44
aux st 66 44
aux - st 36 44
aux - st 37 44
aux - st 39 44
aux - st 43 44
aux - st 45 44
aux - st 47 44
aux - st 49 44
aux - st 50 44
aux - st 53 44
aux - st 59 44
aux - st 61 44
aux - st 62 44
aux - st 63 44
aux - st 64 44
aux - st 65 44
aux - st 1 45
aux - st 2 45
aux st 3 45 (white metal proj)
aux st 7 45
aux - st 8 45
aux st 9 45
aux st 10 45
aux-st 11 45
aux-st 12 45

Draht-u. Metallfabriken G.m.b.H., Salzwedel, Germany
fva 1 44 st
fva 7 44 st
fva 8 44 st
fva 11 44 st
fva 14 44 st
fva 15 44 st
fva 16 44 st
fva 2 45 st

Hugo Schneider A.-G., Werk Leipzig, Germany
de - st 1 45
de - st 2 45
de st 4 45
de st 6 45

Waffenwerke Brünn A.-G., Werk Povázská Bystrica, formally Czech National Arms and Ammunition Factory, Povázská Bystrica, Czechoslovakia under German occupation
dou st 14 44
dou st 3 45
dou.- st 3 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 6 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 9 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 10 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 12 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 13 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.- st 14 44 (the “.” after dou)
dou.-st 1 45 (the “.” after doi)
dou.-st 2 45 (the “.” after doi)
dou.-st 3 45 (the “.” after doi)
dou.-st 5 45 (the “.” after dou)
dou.-st 6 45 (the “.” after doi)
dou.-st 8 45 (the “.” after dou)

Hugo Schneider A.-G., Werk Leipzig, Germany
wa st 3 44
wa st 6 44
wa st 7 44
wa - st 8 44
wa - st 13 44
wa - st 15 44

Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbritzen G.m.b.H., Werk Sebaldushof, Germany
hla st 12 44
hla st 11 44
hla st 13 44
hla st 15 44
hla st 16 44
hla st 17 44
hla st 19 44
hla-st 19 44
hla-st 20 44
hla-st 21 44
hla-st 1 45
hla-st 2 45
hla st 5 45

Teuto Metallwerke G.m.b.H., Osnabrück, Germany
oxo-st 1 44
oxo-st 2 44
oxo-st 3 45 (x2)

Hasag Eisen u. Metallwerke G.m.b.H., Werk Skarzysko-Kamienna, Poland (formally Fabryka Amuniciji, Skarzysko, Kamienna)
kam (x0)

Post-war Sellior & Bellot czech - produced for one year (1946) on German machinery.
SB ) 1 46 (x1)


#2

I am so sorry gents - I have changed the wording of the post - this is definitely not a for sale ad!
Just a listing of my nascent Kurz collection as it stands maker and date-wise, with an interest in seeing other collections and rare rounds -
and an interest in trading for some OXO maker marked ammo if anyone has some spare.

Tried to find a way to keep them “somewhat” organized - the post it labels are thumbed so they are just tacky and then adhered to the card, not the paper sticker - still growing - came across another 70 or so WW2 rounds since the first log session.

And a small amount of postwar Kurz.


#3

I would love to see pics of Kurz ammunition from the Polte, Magdeburg factory from anyones collection - if they are wishing to share:

Ones I am particularly interested in seeing:

  1. Any color tracer - black/blue/red/yellow/none tip tracer round - Pist Patrone 43 L’spur
    (Sounds like they never got this quite right.)

i. Blank - Platzpatrone MP79me
ii. Any of the three styles of grenade launcher blank - Kartusche Fur Mkb Patr.S. or Pist Treibpatrone 43

  1. Armorers rounds (Polte Werkseugpatrone) Tool Cartridge.

  2. Gauge cartridge - Lehrpatrone.

  3. Drill (Ex-patrone) Werkzeug steel or plastic style.

  4. Probe (sample) headstamps.

  5. Prince Albrecht explosive round - PistSprgGesch 43 (Yes, I know these are a half myth.)

I know these are rare, but I also know there are some seasoned collectors here :)

Pit.
[i]PS. I am personally looking for these ones below to trade for my collection:

I am looking for: oxo or kam headstamp.

or, an: aux 7.9 headstamp.

or, an: aux, hla dated 1941, 42, or 43 dated.[/i]


#4

Hello pitfighter,

It is nice to see someone is interested in 8x33 ammo. In Europe a lot of people are collecting this calibre.
The nice part is, it doesn’t take much room. My collection of head stamps fits in a small case.
From left to right, manufacturers in alphabetic, 15 rounds in a row. The empty holes must be filled. .))
On the side the special ones like cn bullet, primer 88, proof and so on.

The first head stamps, with the small experimental case

Second lot Polte 1941 with primer 88 und 30/40. The first lot went to the gun factory’s.

“Probe 3” head stamp

Drill round,

Werkzeug,

Late brass cases:

Just as the 7,65 Browning and 9mm Para there was also for Stg44 a 8x33 silencer cartridge.

Leere

Tracer,

This round was made for me. If it was an original one, it looks like this.

Round with a “Sintereisen” bullet.

Rgds
Dutch


#5

Not as nice as Dutch’s rounds, but still might be of interest:







#6

Dutch, the first hs of the 7.92x30 was from 1938.


#7

Those are fantastic examples, Gentlemen.

Really great - thank you.

Dutch - your rare rounds are amazing - are they your rounds that are photographed in the Sturmgewehr Collector’s grade Publication, the Probe photo looks identical?
Except that you clearly have more rare variations than are mentioned in the book :)

The X marked silencer round is very interesting - presumably sub-sonic - without a locked breech, that must have been interesting to shoot, required cocking each shot - what a find!

What is the story on the IMC sl 53 headstamp?

Great collections - really food for thought - thanks!

The post war Com-Bloc is quite plentiful - I have about 500 or so loose rounds.
Hornady and Privi (FHM) I have for shooting.


#8

That “IMC” headstamp is actually "F.M.C.“S L” from Argentina - Fabricaciones Militares de Cartuchos “San Lorenzo” made in 1953. They are somewhat scarce, as are the Spanish rounds from F.N.T.


#9

Argentine and Spanish Kurz - yes, very interesting, I had no idea they existed - thank you.


#10

Thanks for showing these rounds, this thread clearly make me jealous.


#11

FYI, John Scott had an Argentine Kurz round on his table just last week.


#12

Hi pitfighter,

Here are a couple more variations. The Argentine round has a longer neck – I don’t have an explanation. Just an untrimmed case, I suppose. The rest of them are Spanish.

Regards,

Paul


#13

Paul, the Argentine cartridge made in 1956 by Fábrica Militar “San Lorenzo” is authentic but it is very rare in original loaded condition using a standard 33 mm case. Regarding this example with a 36 mm case, you are right, it is an unfinished sample obtained from the factory with its corresponding bullet. Several Argentine collectors from the 1950-60’s had specimens like this in their collections.

Regards,

Fede


#14

Thank you Fede. Sounds like I’ll have to contact John Scott!

Regards,
Paul


#15

Great, it is good to see those three Spanish variants - and terrific photography too - thank you!
I wonder how that longer necked Argentine was reliability-wise, the mags for the MP44 are quite snug lengthwise with WW2 ammo -
Very interesting stuff -

Johnny C - Ref - the Shoei dummy rounds - one of my partial kits (rear, lower receiver and mag) is built around a Japanese Shoei receiver -
My wife photographed it in one of her still lives with her tin-type - sorry about the missing fore-handguard long story.


#16

I have been buying a lot of Kurz - mainly post war -

But, I am finding some WW2 -

This little box arrived this morning.

I haven’t had a 20 round box before, so quite pleased.
Aux 44 - two different batches - 26 + 30
Love to hear thoughts from the experts here, especially on the relabeled condition.


#17

[quote=“pitfighter”]Ref - the Shoei dummy rounds - one of my partial kits (rear, lower receiver and mag) is built around a Japanese Shoei receiver -
[/quote]

Do you mean that you built a shootable semi-auto StG44 out of a dummy gun receiver, or did you use some real parts for a display piece?


#18

One of my MP44 kits is assembled on a Shoei non-gun receiver (in the US the receiver “is” the firearm - no receiver, no firearm) - so the lower, stock, fore end are all real WW2 but the “upper” receiver and internals are made from pot metal by Shoei in Japan - it is a dummy that cocks clicks and strips, there is no firing pin…
Shoei - http://www.shoeiseisakusho.co.jp/MP44%20series%20english.html

The second kit is built on a reassembled semi auto only receiver made from steel - it is 922r compliant, has American made parts from Recon ordnance and cannot be converted to fully automatic - as well as the parts missing there are denial ridges in the receiver that do not allow the fitting of a full auto bolt - this is an exhaustive and interesting subject PM me if you are truly interested it doesn’t really have much to do with my Kurz collection.

Top - is shoei upper receiver and stock bracket, with FXO (Haenel) lower and stock, front end.
Bottom - is Haenel X block 1945 parts kit with “cut” receiver before restoration -

Ontario gunshow today Sat 4th Oct - no WW2 Kurz - but a few postwar boxes for the collection. Nothing brilliant, but even this stuff is trickier to find now.

Box at center top - red text reads:“vollwertig” - which google translates to: “fully satisfying” - Hmmm
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/wwii-8mm-leiferung-unbekannt-box/12397/6&hilit=vollwertig#p95882
The box is mixed date and batch codes, from different sources - per the other part of the label.


#19

[quote] which google translates to: “fully satisfying”[/quote]In this case it would better translate to “Fully up to spec”, I think.
Have just bought a BD44, which is the Dittrich built SA copy of an StG44, sadly it’s from the first production run, so I expect some problems with the mechanism. Have to make it into a straight-pull to legally use it for competition.
And it cannot shoot WW2 ammo as it has a CIP compliant chamber.
Soren


#20

Soren,
could you explain why WW2 ammunition cannot be fired from a CIP chamber? Does it have the original erroneous bore diameter CIP defined (based on a Mauser drawing giving a totally wrong bullet diameter) ?