Looking for 30x113B info and help with related ID


#1

Hello all and thanks for having me! I would have done this in an introductory forum, but I didn’t see one listed. A little background info about myself: I’ve been a collector of militaria since I was a little kid, but I regrettably sold a lot of pieces along the way that I should have hung on to. Anyway, my main focus is collecting belt-fed ammunition and their belts/links used by the U.S. Besides the already mentioned hobbies, I’m also an avid shooter/outdoorsman. I’m a manufacturing engineer by trade (and have spent many years as a machinist), and I also collect blueprints. I enjoy solid modeling, and like to model firearms and their components.

I’m currently looking for drawings & blueprints related to 30mm ammunition and their arms; specifically, I’m looking for drawings for the 30x113B used in the Apache’s M230 chain gun. I have aspirations of designing and building a semi-automatic, belt-fed, 30mm cannon (to be registered as a destructive device in my state). I’ve already requested the STANAG’s for 30mm chambers and their links, but NATO cancelled them. I’ve sent a letter to NATO requesting copies of the cancelled documents, but haven’t heard back from them yet. Anyone have any drawings for the 30x113 to include cartridge case or projectile?

Also, I recently picked up (from another board member who turned me on to this forum) a bag of links marked “30 WECOM.” These were in a ziploc bag marked by sharpie. I’m familiar with WECOM developing a cartridge for use in helicopter guns, but I’ve never seen pictures of the links used to verify what I have. The links have no identifying markings (lot numbers, cage codes, etc.), but they seem to fit the diameter of a 30x113 (I don’t have any WECOM rounds lying around to try them on). The link fits well, but there appears to be a little space between the link and the cartridge where the “prongs” are supposed to snap into the extractor groove. Can anyone positively identify them as WECOM links or something else? Any help would be appreciated.

-WRM











#2

WRM, your link here is for the 30x100B WECOM cartridge which is predating the M230 as such If i remember correctly.
Also the M230 is not using links (the M230LF does but is not for use with AH-64 helicopters).


#3

Thanks for the speedy reply EOD. I’m aware that the M230 doesn’t use links (although the M230LF does), but it was the only thing I had lying around that was close enough for a pictorial reference. Does any documentation exist that show this link and define it as a WECOM link? I don’t doubt you as you’re likely WAY more experienced at this stuff than I am, but I was just wondering if there was any definitive proof in the way of manuals/reference materials/etc. or if you’re just familiar with this link/cartridge through experience.

-WRM


#4

Also, while we’re on the subject, are there drawings available for cartridge/projo dimensions for the 30x100B WECOM cartridge? Until I can source 5 complete cartridges for my collection, I could always machine some dummys to fill the links.

-WRM


#5

WRM, I am digging my files but so far I doubt to find much as the WECOM remained experimental and finding proper documentation on the links will be very difficult.
Of course this does not mean that somebody may not have these docs. I would be happy to see them.

But a quick web search led me to an interesting site which is dealing with the 30x100B WECOM gun and plenty of army images (from the tests it seems).
Here the XM30 WECOM and there you can see the links on the ground (actually I know of 2 slightly different WECOM links by now - there might be more):

Source:
sobchak.wordpress.com/2010/01/05 … ubsystems/


#6

There is also some reference on the 30mm WECOM in Chinn, vol 5, page 295 but unfortunately no links shown there.

Just a small observation, the link in question (XM23 if I remember correctly) and the 30x100B round are a perfect fit when attached and it is not uncommon to find both itmes as a unit. I know this is no proof.
Also the link here was around long before the M230LF gun (which is quite recent). So in any case the link can not be for the LF variant too.
Not to forget that the original links for 30x113B ADEN/DEFA links do look different (and are derived from the German MG213/MK213 links as the whole ADEN/DEFA guns were).


#7

Also a small homegrown (and certainly not scientific) test to determine if a link is for the actual cartridge or not - this works with medium caliber cartridges only I think and is also no guaranteed procedure but may be an initial hint on how to proceed.
When a loaded cartridge is in the link (in the suspectedly correct position) and the unit of both is lifted in the centre of the “eye” of the link the unit should be balanced horizontally as a link normally is attached to a cartridge in it’s centre of gravity (to prevent malfunctions and aid proper feeding). If the cartridge/unit is heavily misbalanced there is a high likeliness that they do not belong togeter.
In case of your shown combination above the latter will be the case to what I think (just for other reasons).
Please take the words above with a grain of salt where needed.


#8

Wow, thanks for all the info EOD! Those links on the ground in the pic you posted look exactly like what I have.

-WRM