Looking for a single round of obsolete jet fighter ammunitio


#1

[color=#000080]I’m looking for a single round of two different cannon shells for my amateur cartridge collection: (1) From WWII, a single round of Rhinemetall Mk108 30mm cannon ammunition from an ME-262 jet fighter. Live or complete dummy, it doesn’t matter; however, it must be in “reasonably good” condition - nothing “rusted or corroded” beyond “reasonable” standards - whatever that might mean to you.
(2) A single round of Russian/Chicom MiG-15 37mm cannon ammunition - again, either live or dummy is fine; again, it must be in fairly good shape.
If anyone can help, I’d appreciate it very much! I’m in the USA.
You can email me at JBY53@HARBORNET.COM[/color]


#2

John - This sort of post normally has to go in the Buy/sell/trade folder. To post in that folder you have to be an IAA member. The moderators may or may not delete the message you posted the way it is written in this general information folder. If you re-write it to say that you are looking for information on the cartridges, or information on how to obtain the cartridges, then it would probably be allowed to stay, and you might get what you are looking for.

In any case - Welcome to the forum!


#3

There have not been any good condition Mk108s in the US market for quite some time. Most are fair to poor. Some a little better have turned up in germany but good luck getting one sent over.

There are nice 37s in the states but they are usually Czech. The Russian and Chinese ones are hard to come by. I have some in storage and may get to them later this year. Best to check Gunbroker and Auctionarms. I sell on both of these - CSAEOD.


#4

Many thanks! Even a “crummy” round of Mk108 30mm would do, I suppose. I’d just like to be able to show people what the ME-262 fired in combat. What a machine for it’s day! Imagine what it would’ve been capable of doing had Germany’s war machine not been so bogged down in both politics (Hitler vs. Germany’s fighter command) as well as lack of raw materials. I’m kinda glad they were, of course; on the other hand, you have to admit it would’ve been kind of interesting to see what “secret projects” - airplane-wise, that is - Germany would’ve developed had the war gone on another year or two…


#5

If you haven’t already got a copy, look out for German Aircraft Guns of WW1-WW11 by Edward Hoffschmidt. Lots of great pictures of German machine guns and cannons along with a chapter on aircraft ammunition. There’s a photo showing the components of a Mk108 plus its effects on the wing of a P40 static test.

NATO Dave


#6

John … I have a couple Mk108 rounds actuelly 3 of them. A UB, a HEI, and An M round HE. I don’t think I want to get rid of them but can post or send some pics I can take. //


#7

The few nice ones I have seen are a bit on the expensive side. For me, at least. The rest are, at best, just a notch above dug relics, but restorable. A suggestion some consider blasphemous, but not to me. For context, I also open all ammo cans and boxes. Sealed or not. So there.

Fred


#8

Roger that, guys! Thanks for all of your input! Yes, if you’d like to send me any pix, drawings, or whatever dealing with the Mk108 cannon or it’s ammunition, I would gladly recieve them with much thanks! I’ve always had a real fascination with the ME-262 (Too bad Hitler hated Heinkel - politics kept Heinkel’s jet designs out of the war) - as advanced as it was, it was simply a case of “too little, too late” to have much effect on the war. I’ve read in various sources that while approx. 1,200 (+/-) were built, only approx. 300 (again, +/-) actually saw combat. But a 550mph jet fighter sporting 4 30mm cannon - wow! Light years ahead of it’s time, inspite the lack of raw materials needed to build the engines properly. Anything dealing with the Mk108 cannon and/or the ammo it fired is much appreciated!! Thanks, again…!! - JY
JBY53@HARBORNET.COM


#9

DK - Sorry for not addressing your comments from earlier. I guess I was a little “pee-od” over the notion of being required to be a member of something just to post a notice of “I’m looking for a …” type notice. Rules & policies aside for the moment, it’s not like I’m looking to buy huge quantities of ammo or looking to broker or sell like same. Telling people about a round of ammo one is looking for seems right up the alley (so-to-speak) of this forum, and to be told that “you gotta join” or “you gotta pay some $$ in order to do this sort of thing…” smacks of elitism to me. I’m sure you fellows have reasons for these rules and we don’t need to discuss them; having said that, however, I would merely suggest that by making these rules so strict, I’d guess (by virtue of considering myself to be a more-or-less “average” joe…) that just as many people are going to be turned off & seek solutions elsewhere rather than registering & joining just to acquire one or two rounds of something. My opinion…


#10

SlickRick - If you have info on the whereabouts of the rounds you mentioned earlier, feel free to send (or give their info to me - either way) that person or persons my email address: JBY53@HARBORNET.COM. I can deal with them directly if it suits them. Thanks! J


#11

NatoDave - I’ve got the Hoffschmidt book - had it for years! You’re right - it is an excellent book!! - J


#12

1SFG - Should you ever desire to “rid yourself” of any or all of these - feel free to contact me anytime! Keep my email address handy, if desired! Thanks! J


#13

MANY HAVE INCLUDING LOTS OF EUROPEANS WHO USED TO COME ON FROM THE EAST.

REGISTERING HELPS KEEP OUT THE SPAM AND HACKERS AS I UNDERSTAND IT SO HAS TO BE DONE.


#14

[quote=“john”]Roger that, guys! Thanks for all of your input! Yes, if you’d like to send me any pix, drawings, or whatever dealing with the Mk108 cannon or it’s ammunition, I would gladly recieve them with much thanks! I’ve always had a real fascination with the ME-262 (Too bad Hitler hated Heinkel - politics kept Heinkel’s jet designs out of the war) - as advanced as it was, it was simply a case of “too little, too late” to have much effect on the war. I’ve read in various sources that while approx. 1,200 (+/-) were built, only approx. 300 (again, +/-) actually saw combat. But a 550mph jet fighter sporting 4 30mm cannon - wow! Light years ahead of it’s time, inspite the lack of raw materials needed to build the engines properly. Anything dealing with the Mk108 cannon and/or the ammo it fired is much appreciated!! Thanks, again…!! - JY
JBY53@HARBORNET.COM[/quote]

According to Ben Drew, who shot down 2 ME262s in a few minutes , the Germans did not have a “jet fighter” mentality. They still retained the prop. thinking and ,of course, Hitler wanted it used as a bomber which did not help with fighter training.

He was flying a P51 when he encountered 2 MEs taking off from base. They both tried to roll up as is standard in prop. dog fighting. He killed them both.
If they had just hit the gas and sped away they would have escaped but they did not think in terms of their great speed yet.

I met Ben a couple of times. Interesting fellow. I had him sign a .50 for me.


#15

If the Me262s were just taking off “hitting the gas” was more problematic than it might seem. These early jets had a hard time spooling up from low speed and flame-outs were apt to result if the pilot really slammed the throttle. The 262 was, low down and landing or taking off, pretty much a sitting duck. On the subject of the MK108 this weapon was not specific to the German jets but was also used in several reciprocating engine fighters. Jack


#16

Jack, I can only second! It was not a matter of wrong spirit or mentality as Ben Drew assumed, it was technical reasons that made Me262 defenceless and easy prey to allied prop fighters, which was found out fairly soon after their appearance in the skies. For this reason some Luftwaffe squadrons who could manage (availability of planes, gas, trained pilots) brought prop fighters into the air for the critical moments. So from the described circumstances Ben maybe was no real hero, maybe he was just luckily there at the right time.

Hans


#17

This thread has evoled into a discussion of aircraft, not ammunition. Please keep the thread within the Forum rules in https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/forum-rules-reminder/7219/1.

Thanks,

Lew


#18

Back to the ammunition part…

This 30mm for the Mk108 is probably typical of condition found except maybe for the rather nice case. H/S is “257 eeo 44”

I have been under the impression that many of the German items that reach the collector market have been recovered from lakes and rivers. Is this the case? It would seem to explain the condition these items are often found in.

Dave


#19

Dave

The majority of the 30mms I’ve seen for sale are somewhat relicky. Your pictured one is a few levels better than most. I’d agree that the submersed or buried versions are more common. The good ones are apparently kept in their collections. I wish people were more giving.


#20

Interesting comments. Unusual that only one picture has been posted. The 108 round like the Mk 101 & 103 acft cannon rounds are somewhat unique in that they were large scale “production” rounds, not just experimental. And yes the “good” ones are hard to come by and for a pretty good reason; there are not many of them. So not surprising someone that may have a a round in “out of the tube” condition would more than likely keep it. I have a friend that did river recovery diving in Europe … it is very DANGEROUS! As the WW II drew to a close and immediatly after … hundreds of tons of every type ammunition was dumped in rivers and lakes all over Europe, by the German Army and Air Force, by citizens in towns and by the Allied forces. I acquired these rounds by trading for something the other guy wanted more than he want these rounds… simple enough. They are for me, not just something someone else dosn’t have they, they are something that will never be produced again. I’m sure some of you out there have rounds in better condition that you can share pic’s of. I also have copies of German ammunition schematics. I have found that the book “German Aircraft Ammunition” Project TSI-48 Feb 1956, Aberdeen Proving Ground is a great reference, but not all inclusive. Hope these pics add to the story of the 30mm Mk108