Looking for help on Fiocchi Box codes


#1

I have some idea of the information that is on the Fiocchi codes, but I only have two FIOCCHI USA box codes to work with. I think the content is roughly the same as the Fiocchi Italy codes but the format is clearly different.

If you have FIOCCHI USA boxes in any caliber, please post the box codes along with a rough idea of the year they may have been produced, if you know.

You can also send me the info on email by using the email box below.

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,

Lew


#2

There must be a bunch or you with Fiocchi USA boxes laying around in your shooting stock or in your collections. Please share the codes so we have enough to make a guess at the format.

Thanks!!!


#3

Looking through my Fiocchi/Fiocchi-USA boxes, Fiocchi recall notices, and other data on the Internet, I found 5 different systems:

  1. European production, all 9mm Luger
    Examples:
    4207115 1234 CIP047 (marked USA, but not MADE IN USA)
    4712193 1992 CIP123
    4509222 to 4511276 (from early 2006 recall notice)
    The second digit is the last digit of the year, 2=2002, 7=2007, 5=2005; next two the numerical month (01-12), then two digit day (01-31), followed by 0-9 – in that order – and four more digits which probably make up a five-digit lot number. Only the 9mm had the CIP numbers, which I don’t know the meaning of.
  2. European production, from a single 380 Auto box
    Example:
    2604001 3829
    Speculation: 260400 is 26 April 2000 followed by a five digit lot number.
  3. MADE IN USA production, from two 9mm Luger boxes
    Examples:
    0617969011
    1027969028
    Because Americans use month-day-year, whereas Europeans use day-month-year or year-month-day, I think the first two digits are the month (01-12), followed by the two-digit day, followed by the year (9=2009), and a five-digit lot number.
  4. MADE IN USA
    Examples:
    1 09 02 (from a 40 S&W box)
    1 08 19 (from a 45 Auto box)
    Need more data.
  5. Shotgun, but I don’t know where they were produced
    Examples:
    0519887003
    0708906008
    802139006
    I think the first one or two digits are year (05=2005, 07=2007, 8=2008), followed by the Julian day (001-365 or 366), followed by the five-digit lot number.

#4

Here is one off of a box of .45 Auto, Made in Italy ,has bar code,children warning,wine color box.

CIP-005

4403017-2718

Memory fails as to year fired.No rounds remain.


#5

Lew , do you need italian boxes codes too?


#6

here’s from two boxes imported to Denmark 3-4 years ago (rough estimate):
CIP-054
4310124-0482
.38 S&W special
Full Metal Jacket 158 grain
Wine/maroon coloured box with all the warnings etc
made in italy.
Cases: (top:) G.F.L. (bottom:) 38 SPECIAL

The other:
4507015 2718 (notice: no hyphen)
CIP 006
.38 S&W Special
Lead Wad Cutter 148 gr (GZ)
Same box style but a bit lower due to the shorter rounds.
made in Italy
Cases: (top:)G.F.L. (bottom:) 38 SPL.WAD.CUT.

boxcodes stamped with blue ink.
Hope it is of any use…
Soren

edit: spelling


#7

Many thanks!!!

I’ve been told on good authority that the Italian Fiocchi code is:

digit:
1= production facility or unit
2= year
3&4 = month
5&6 = day
7-8,9,10,11 = production lot number

CIP-??? is the test number or test acceptence number- my data is much softer on this.

It looks like auto pistol ammo is production unit =4

Mausernuts 38 Special code 4507015 2718 (notice: no hyphen)
CIP 006 breaks down as follows:

Production unit=4 (apparently the main Fiocchi small arms factory in Italy)
50701= 1 July 2005
5 2718 is the lot number
CIP 054 is the test acceptance number apparently

Now the issues.

dArtagnan’s 380 box with 2604001 3829 doesn’t seem to fit. I suspect you are right that this box is 26 April 2000, and that the plant code is missing. Does anyone else have Fiocchi boxes with this format number? This may be an earlier style. I have a Fiocchi box of “Leader” brand cartridges, made in Europe with a code 0236005 1835 which is in the same format as above but digits 3 & 4 cannot be either a month or a day code.

dArtagnan’s 0617969011 and 1027969028 fit with my 0226869002. I suspect these three are June 17, 2009, Oct 27, 2009 and Feb 26, 2008, all followed by a five digit lot number.

I don’t have anything to add to dArtagnan’s #4 and #5.

Many thanks. This gives a pretty good idea on both the current Fiocchi Italy code and Fiocchi USA code.

Lots more work to do but this is a start!

Lew


#8

The box in the picture has the following code stamped on the flap:
4807088-3100
CIP072
(Newer boxes found this year has the code 4911156-3760 CIP-097(with hyphen)
(The cartridges in the box have no relation to Fiocchi)

Soren


#9

Nice box!! Soren

never seen it before…

gyrojet


#10

I don’t collect boxes but have some Fiocchi ones at home.All have the CIP logo

22 LR :

0638021 ( maxac , red box)

3006005 ( ultrasonic)

no code , but made for Pirotecnico di Capua , contract n° 4058 , lot n° 1 - 12 - 83) ( standard)

0435013 ( maxac , green box)

0136004 ( maxac , green box)

8 mm Blank ( nickeled)

2935055.23.

CIP 013 4012025 _ 2277

1638031 3416

380 blank

CIP 003 4007009 0664

CIP 002 43010005 3650

9 mm Short ( 380 Auto) - military box from 1939

221

9 x 21 mm

0437011 / 3445 ( FMJ , red box)

CIP 010 38.11.025 3418 ( FMC , green box)

2433015 / 3001 ( lead , purple box)

CIP 034 4907068 _ 0345 ( FMJ , striped red box)

357 magnum

0334011 2710 ( FMJ , purple box)

45 HP

0136001 / 3460 ( FMJ , red box)

20/ 76 mm gauge

4030COT / LOT. 5088


#11

new addition

357 magnum wad cutter

2503001 - 3001 ( '80es grey box)


#12

This box is “Made in Hungary”, code “H4104030CIP016”.

I have 2 of these, they are “Made in Italy”, codes “CIP 001 4305001-3030” and “0937017” without CIP. This box has no “INT’L” under "Fiocchi"

These are my pistol-carrying rounds, yes, I proudly carry a small calibre, if you know what I mean.


#13

Houston, we have a problem.
Listing the made-in-Europe lot numbers:
0136001 3460
0136004
0334011 2710
0435013
0437011 3445
0638021
0937017
1638031 3416
2433015 3001
2503001 3001
2604001 3829
2935055.23
3006005
38.11.025 3418
4007009 0664
4012025 2277
H4104030
4207115 1234
4301005 3650
4305001 3030
4310124 0482
4403017 2718
4507015 2718
4710158 1346
4712193 1992
4804049 1927
4807088 3100
4907068 0345
4911156 3760
there is a format change between those beginning with 0, 1, and 2; and those beginning with 3 or 4. When I looked up all the dates I found on Magtech boxes, the dates always equated to Monday thru Friday, never Saturday or Sunday. When I looked up all the Fiocchi dates contained in those lot numbers beginning with 4, I got every day, Monday thru Sunday, yet the day dates are only 00 (to which I didn’t assign any day) thru 19.
Where are the 20’s and 30’s? Something is not computing. Perhaps we need some insight into what days Italians work from someone familiar with Italian industry. Do they work 7 days per week?


#14

Usually a factory worker works from Monday to friday , but some factories work during the week end too or 24 hours per day


#15

Ref the early 2006 Fiocchi 9mm 115 grain ammo recall notice, rearranging the given order of the seven-digit lot numbers, might shed a little light on the subject. Check out the last three digits; starting with 4509222, they continue to 230 when the previous two digits (09) go up to 10. Skipping 231-240 (presumably 10231-10240), 10241 continues to 10261, skip 262, then 263 is 11263, which continues to 11276. Superficially, it looks like a combination of month (09 10 11) and Julian day – which makes no sense at all. There are too many days per month: 230-261 or 262 in “month” 10 is 32 or 33 “days”; and the Julian numbers don’t correspond to the months.

4509222 4510241 4511264
4509223 4510242 4511265
4509224 4510243 4511266
4509225 4510244-256 4511267
4509226 4510257 451168-269
4509227 4510258 4511270
4509229 4510259 4511271
4509229 4510261 4511272
4510230 4511263 4511276

So the 3rd and 4th digits equating to the month and the 5th and 6th digits equating to the day doesn’t look feasible. And the month/Julian day thing breaks down with lot numbers like 4712193 – days in December (12) should start in the 330’s.


#16

It sure is a lot easier to come up with theories on what a box code means when there is just a little bit of data.

First, Thanks to all of you who contributed information. What they prove, as usual is that the Fiocchi codes are a lot more complicated than I originally thought.

I have built an Excel list of all the Fiocchi codes I have and those from the Forum. There are some things that show up.

The basic Box number is usually a 7 digit code, with or without the 4 digit lot number on the end. These last 4 digits may have been added at some time as the box code evolved.

I can’t figure out what the first digit is, perhaps a machine line or whatever but it doesn’t seem to relate to a specific caliber.

The second digit could and probably is the year. I have two boxes with dated headstamps where the ammunition is dated and the date on the casehead matches the second digit. There are a number of other cases where there is date information associated with the box, and it is consistent with the second digit being the year.

Digits 3 & 4 are probably the month for the more recent cartridges. The numbers vary between 01 and 12 across the sample. The earlier style boxes seem to have a number in the 30s in these two positions and I have no idea what it may be.

Digits 5 & 6 were reported to me as the day of the month, but this is unlikely. In the sample below they are almost entirely low numbers. It is statistically very unlikely that we would have captured this many boxes loaded in the first 10 days of the month. Of course 00 isn’t a day, but it is interesting that there are also no numbers above 27 below.

I am satisfied that the last 5 digits are some other sort of identification.

The H prefix on the ammunition made in Hungary also makes sense. It is a typical Fiocchi code with an H prefix for Hungary.

We have also documented three 10 digit codes used on Italian made ammo which appear to use the following format as dArtagnan suggested:
Digits 1 & 2 = year
Digits 3, 4 & 5 = Julian Date
Digits 6-10 = five digit lot number
This conclusion is based on a small number of samples

Also as dArtagnan, suggested, the Fiocchi USA ammo probably uses the following format:
Digits 1 & 2 =Month
Digits 3&4=Day
Digit 5 = Year
Digits 6-10 = Lot
Again there are only three data points so the information is pretty slim.

In fact, the 6 examples available all fit either the Julian date model or the Fiocchi USA model so we need a lot more data in both cases. Still, it is a start.

I am still very interested in any information on Fiocchi (or pre-1946 DWM) box codes. any help is appreciated.

If you are interested in the actual data, send me an email and I can send either the excel spreadsheet or a word document. The word document does not contain all the information of the spreadsheet.

Cheers,

Lew


#17

Lew,
The marketing folks at Fiocchi are probably enjoying following your progress as you get closer and closer to breaking their box coding system. They probably have a new system ready to go into production pending your announcement that you have it figured out.


#18

I’m just trying to give some of their folks job security!


#19

Lew,

While I’m a bit late to the party, for what it’s worth I have a 9mm RF Flobert box aquired I believe in the late 90’s with the code: “0335016/2710”. This is a Made in Italy product.

Best of luck with your code breaking adventure!

Dave


#20

Although the main data request was for USA codes, I do have quite a number of boxes from the same lots, purchased in 2007 and 2009.

The 2007 purchase:
Fiocchi .30 luger with lead nose (TFL):

38.10.005 2193
CIP 003

Noteworthy is that the ‘38.10.005 / CIP 003’ part is one stamp and that the 2193 is a somewhat rotating separate stamp. With rotating I mean that it is an adjustable stamp with rotatable digits.

The same codes return on all boxes from the same lot.

The 2009 purchase:
Fiochhi .30 luger with FMJ bullet.

3 boxes with:
CIP - 002
4401005-0482

6 boxes with:
CIP - 002
4401006-0340

Note that since this (.30 luger) is a rather unpopular cartridge over here, the ammunition usually has a long shelve life. So although purchased in 2007 and 2009, both lots may have been in storage for a few years.