Looking for Info on this W.R.A.Co. 30 W.C.F


#1

Back again, after some more help please;

Found some more that I know precious little about, this one intrigues me with the double primer. I have only seen these type of primers in Holland & Holland cartridges previously. So is this correct for this? and any date and comments would be very welcome.
%201-1

Thanks,
Mike.


#2

Winchester “protected primer”.

Interesting side note is a Winchester drawing (From the Digital Collections, McCracken Research Library) of a related (?) primer “The Winchester Indented Safety Primer” dated Jan 6, 1910. This cross section portion of this drawing shows the primer cup to be one piece of metal, not 2 pieces of metal.

Brian


#3

That’s interesting Brian, The actual case appears to be of two different metals! Certainly the colours would leave you to believe that.
Attached a copy of a H&H head stamp showing the primer which is a double cap, I have a few like this but this was the first one I found a picture of.
Holland%20%26%20Holland%20No%2020%20Eley%20Note%20twin%20%20primer%20All%20brass
These appear to be used in most H&H paradox type cartridges.

Thanks again for the drawing,

Mike.


#4

Mike the H&H round you show is not a 2-piece cap like the Winchester protected primer. That is merely a circular groove in the primer cup.

Brian neat drawing, when these were made / actually manufactured the primer cup was a separate piece from the outer protective part.


#5

Pete, I have a fired one somewhere but cant see a picture of it, they certainly are very unusual, the fired one from memory appears to be two separate pieces, you now have me thinking that maybe it is manufactured to shear through when struck therefore making it easier to detonate the cap.
I am going to have to hunt for it now and take a closer look if I can find it.


#6

The Winchester protected primer is unlike the Winchester drawing, which seems to show a primer with a very thick primer cup. The WPP came in two sizes, one formed from a .175 copper primer cup contained in a brass sleeve, and the larger a .210 cup within a similar sleeve. Each of these sizes was intended for a range of cartridges and had, of course, a Winchester primer number, not at hand presently. The smaller primer was for the .25-35, .30-30 and similar rounds, the larger for the .32 Winchester special, .33 Winchester and other larger calibers. Jack


#7

From another interested in primers & who sent me this.

_WITH REGARD TO THE WINCHESTER PROTECTED PRIMER: THIS PRIMER IS ACTUALLY COVERED BY TWO PATENTS, JOHN GARDNER WAS GRANTED U.S. PATENT No. 208,589 ON 1 OCTOBER 1878 WHICH COVERS THE PRIMER ANVIL, WILLIAM GARDNER WAS GRANTED U.S. PATENT No. 304,926 ON 9 SEPTEMBER 1884 WHICH COVERS THE DOUBLE CUP PRIMER WITH THE PIERCED OUTER CUP. THE PRIMER WAS MFG. IN TWO SIZES, 5 WHICH IS .210 IN DIAMETER AND THE 5 1/2 WHICH IS .237 IN DIAMETER. THE No. 5 WAS MFG. FROM 1895 TO 1923, AND THE 5 1/2 WAS MFG FROM 1904 TO 1932. _

AN INTERESTING FOOTNOTE: IN THEIR POST 1926 MFG. OF U.S.C.Co. AMMUNITION, WINCHESTER USED THE 5 1/2 PRIMER IN CARTRIDGES THEY MFG. IN .33 W.C.F. CALIBER WITH THE U.S.C.Co. HEADSTAMP. THESE U.S.C.Co. MARKED CARTRIDGES HAVE NO MARKING ON THE INNER PRIMER CUP.


#8

The WPP no. 5 has the diameter of the standard large Boxer primer but is about .015 taller, so a standard primer will not work properly in the no. 5 primer pocket. The WPP no. 5 1/2 primer is of unique dimensions and no standard primer can replace it in a fired case. Jack


#9

One of my favorite “Cigar Box Finds”.

Dave


#10

In Winchester cartridges the “safety primer” is their #4 and was quite similar to a battery cup shot shell primer. Yes - they are two piece construction with a brass ‘sleeve’ and copper cup. By the event of the Super-Speed branding (about 1930) they no longer used the #4 primer. These were supposed to be safer in tubular magazine rifles - no pistol/revolver cartridges used the #4. That’s from the best of my notes - but I’m still researching!