"Lowell 12g USC Co" shotshell w/protector


#1

Why does it come with a protective sleeve? Dan Dietz did not know also, and he had several more with the same sleeve.




#2

The only experience I have of this sort of thing was firing dirt cheap imported 16ga French cartridges in a 12ga back in the early 70s.


#3

Hi Vlad
Have never seen this before on any US product. Not to say it isn’t factory, but I rather doubt it. Is that a re-prime mark on the primer? Is the case mouth stained? If so I’d say not factory but a previous owners method of storage.


#4

Continuing with Vince’s idea of the sleeve to bring 16 ga up to 12 ga, does the sleeve on yours make your 12 ga into a 10 ga?


#5

Imagine an X gauge shotshell and an Y gauge chambered shotgun, with X>Y

  1. If the shotshells X and Y have the same rim thickness (therefore the same rim depth of the chamber of the gun) no problem of dynamic pressure (the shotshell does go backward)

Because the rim diameter of shotshell X is smaller than the rim diameter of shotshell B (therefore the rim diameter of the chamber) there is a risk of cutting the shell at the base just before the rim and hot gas leakage.
This is very dangerous for the shooter

(It is what happened if I see well on the picture)

Nota : this occurs for example if you shoot a 12 gauge british standard shell in a 10 gauge British standard shotgun.

Chamber dimensions of a British 10 gauge gun regarding a 12 gauge british gun
rim depth 1.88 min, 2.00 max refarding 1.88 min, 2.00 max
rim diameter 23.70 min 23.95 max regarding 22.50 min 22.75 max

  1. If the shotshell X has a thinner rim thickness than shotshell Y (therefore samller than the rim depth of the chamber of the gun) [b] and if the firing pin is long enough to fire the shell you add to the former defect a dynamic pressure (the shotshell moves backward) which destroy the gun very quickly
    And furthermore you ou have the risk of breaking the firing pin.
    (If the firing pin is not long enough it doesn’t shoot)

This is very dangerous for the shooter and for the gun.

Nota : this occurs for example if you shoot a 16 gauge british standard shell in a 12 gauge British standard shotgun

Chamber dimensions of a British 12 gauge gun regarding a 16 gauge british gun

rim depth 1.88 min, 2.00 max regarding 1.78 min 1.85 max
rim diameter 22.50 min 22.75 max regarding 20.70 min to 20.96 max


#6

It looks as though, at one time the case was tumbled with jewelers rouge, judging by the reddish residue in the headstamp. Some collectors protect shotshells by putting paper sleeves over the case. M. Rea


#7

I’ll try to answer some questions. Without the sleeve it measures 20mm, and with it -21mm. I don’t know if 21mm is close enough to make it 10 gauge. The inside looks clean as far as I can see, I’d guess it was not fired. I don’t know much about primer reloading marks, so can’t tell. Outside, as you may see, has some longitudinal scratches, again can’t judge.


#8

please answer first the question:

Because the rim diameter of shotshell X is smaller than the rim diameter of shotshell B (therefore the rim diameter of the chamber) there is a risk of cutting the shell at the base just before the rim and hot gas leakage.
This is very dangerous for the shooter

(It is what happened if I see well on the picture)

is your shell cut ???yes or not?

jp


#9

A reloading mark on the primer would be a circle or a partial circle made by the (ill fitting, or off side, or off center) tool pushing the primer into the pocket. A factory loaded shell should not have any marks, unless it somehow got past the inspector. The same applies to any centerfire cartridge.

I think I’m seeing such a mark here? The normal primer should have a smooth radiused curve without any impressions or marks. Usually found at the outer edge close to the pocket edge. But in this case I think I’m seeing an impressed circle near the primer center? Copper being soft it easily marks when reloaded.

The case mouth is often blackened by the salts if not cleaned (just like a gun) & usually can not be removed as it etches into the mouth leaving pitting when removed.

How does the inner base look? nice & bright? or ?


#10

it is obvious its shell has been fired
the marks you see are the ones of the chamber
jp


#11

Jeanpierre,
I think the nominal rim diametre of 12g is 22.45mm. My shell is measuring 22.1mm. Does that answer your question?


#12

Here is a different shell of the same type which appears to be fired, for comparison.



#13
  1. of course this one also has been fired (chamber marks)

  2. my question was :
    i the first pictures of this topic the shell looks like to have a cut just below the rim.
    Right or not ?
    jp


#14

Pete, the inside of the base looks new and shiny, but for some reason my flash does not show that. Any photography trick to get a shot of a base? I see the markings on the periphery of the well too.


#15

Vlad no time now to go into the tricks of photographing the shell’s inside base. What about any primer marks?


#16

Jeanpierre,
I took original photos indoors because it was raining. I think what you see as a cut mark there is a shadow. Here are better pictures. The 2nd photo has a known fired shell on the right for comparison.


#17

Pete, I see no primer markings.


#18

hello skvlad,

you are pretty cconfusing with your pictures and the fact you mix two subjects

  1. use of the paper
  2. is the shell new or already been fired

What I told you about firing a shell in a lower gauge gun is still good

How to recognize a fired shell?
If you see cylindrical marks on the tube it means it has already been fired (in a crude chamber, like very often it was in the old days)

About dimensions I check the topic and give you anszwer very soon
jp


#19

hello again
You asked:
Without the sleeve it measures 20mm, and with it -21mm. I don’t know if 21mm is close enough to make it 10 gauge.

Here are the dimensions for british chambers
10 gauge 21.80 min to 22.05 max
12 gauge 20.60 min to 20.90

Therefore putting a paper sleeve help to shoot the shell

jp


#20

another way to know if a shotshell has already been fired is to compare the diameters.

when you shoot it it takes the dimensions of the chamber, even near the base and therefore it increases in diameter
jp