Magyar Löszermüvek History and P (Hirtenberger) Headstamp Questions


#1

Hello all,

Does anyone have any information about Magyar Löszermüvek out of Vesprem, Hungary? The only info I have is that they started producing ammunition in 1940 and that at some point (according to allied documents) the plant was moved to Lenzing, Kreis Vöcklabruck in Austria and that the director was Gabor Toht from Lenzing.

Also, I have P as a headstamp for Hirtenberger (http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes?page=headstampcodes#P), but I’m confused as to why they would use a P. Was it to make it look like it came from Polte Werke in Magdeburg? That doesn’t really make sense to me but I don’t know all the details of the restrictions placed on Austria at the time (though one would think it would be the same for Germany and they’d use another country, like they did with the AH stamp).

Here’s a clip with the P stamping in question (photo courtesy of Enfield56):

Any help is, as always, greatly appreciated.


#2

Hi Zeliard99,
Hope the appended link might be helpful:

Sam3


#3

#4

Tad bit of info here:


#5

A bit more information from an older thread here on the Forum

|45x45

mihalytoth

Jan '10

"Phil,

In Veszprém the ammunition factory was founded on 1st September 1939 under the name Magyar Lőszerművek Rt. During the WWII the following calibers were produced here: 9mm Luger, 9mm Mauser Export, 8x56R Mannlicher. At the end of the WWII the withdrawing German army took away the machines of the factory, that is why the production stopped for a while. On the headstamps of the ammunitions made in Magyar Lőszerművek the “ML(monogram)” sign was shown.

Production started again in 1951, when the factory worked under the name Bakony Művek Rt. Bakony Művek used code “21” from 1951-1989. During this period they produced the following calibers: 7.62x54R, 7.62mm Tokarev, 7.62x39, 9mm Makarov, 12,7x108(?). In 1989 they produced 5.56mm NATO ammunition as well, which headstamp was V 9.

Mátravidéki Fémművek used code “23”, and Andezit Művek worked in Jobbágyi used code “22”. There also was a factory in Téglás, where 12.7x108, and 14.5x114 ammunitions were produced with code “25”."

Mihály


#6

I had assumed Hirtenberg used P to indicate Patronenfabrik. After all, they had manufactured ammunition for the Austrian government headstamped with the Austrian state eagle cipher rather than H or P. Jack


#7

I thought it was previously established that the “P” hs with 2 or 3 stars represented Patronen-Fabriek, Dordrecht Netherlands). This was a subsidiary of Hirtenberger (established 1925) and produced (mainly military) ammunition from 1926 until 1936 including overseas contracts for Hirtenberg with the “P” hs. The business being liquidated in 1939 and declared bankrupt in 1941.

I don’t know whether the clip at the beginning of the thread has anything to do with this factory.


#8

I thought the Dordrecht plant just used D or HP? I could completely be wrong about that, I’m no expert at all, just going by past posts. ^_^ I noticed that the Dordrecht P headstamp seems to have been a serif font, while the HP is sans-serif, but on Municion.org there are Hirtenberger P headstamps that are sans-serif as well. Seems like they used whatever was handy almost.

bdgreen: Awesome, thanks. Definitely more info than I had before. :)


#9

I have an Austrian 8 m/m M93 (8x50r) blank with the headstamp P over 1923, with stars at 3 and 9 o’clock. There are four radial lines separating these marking elements. Moetz in his v. 1 indicates Hirtenberger Patronenfabrik began using P in addition to H in headstamps in the 1920s. He suggests the use of P was not likely subterfuge but to agree with a new corporate style, Patronenfabrik Hirtenberg. I see no reason to assume this blue wood bullet blank was made in the Netherlands. Moetz does not mention this particular blank in v. 1 of his work, but if it was (as I suspect) a contract load it may well appear in v. 2. Jack