have a question about a case below. On municion is written that “Marking used in Hungary during the Republic of Soviets, between 1919 and 1921”. As far I know Hungarian Soviet Republic existed only for 133 days in 1919… It is inconsistent for me. Anybody know the history behind this headstamp? Is a manufacturer known?
This is a Polish cartridge case.
The information is from the Polish book “Polska amunicja strzelecka 1919 – 2004, written by Grzegorz Franczyk. 2005 ISBN 83-60217-00-9.
with an austrian type Berdanprmer? This looks more like Austria or Hungary after the lost war itself., The hs has nothing to do, with the mentioned russian-hungarian republic, which was earlier and very short…
Derk, Where is your source, that this headstamp year and star is Polish?
This pic was “stolen” from Municion.org…the poster should mentioning that!!!
He only asks, that muniicion.org says…from Hungary during soviet…but not telling, that the pic is coming from that source…
Roth patent .199" /5.0mm Berdan Primer. Characteristic of Austro-Hungarian Empire ( Half of Poland included) and of countries supplied by OEWG Steyr ( Netherlands, Romania, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria etc.
Single central Flashole allowed for easy Depot/ Barracks reloading for Target practice…Common before WWI, esp. in smaller countries with limited budgets.
Poland ( founded effectively at Armistice Day, Officially in 1919, started manufacturing ammo for all the M95 Mannlicher rifles they had, as well as 8mm Lebel, and 7,9
“S” Ammo. IN 1919-20, Poland was Fighting the Bolsheviks, to maintain Polish and Ukrainian Territory, as well as skirmishes with Baltic states as well.
Eventually Polish 8x50 Mann. and Lebel etc had Factory Head stamps ( PK, Pocisk, etc.) But under war pressure, they would have produced simple headstamps to expedite production.
BTW, Germany and Russia also produced 8x50R Mannlicher during WWI, Germany for AH, and the Russians for the 100s of thousands of captured M95s…
Derk, thanks for this hint, but I translated the text above the drawn headstamps.
It reads the following (I have done it in german and english)…first the polish text, than german, than english:
Cechy producentow prawdopodobnie polskiego pochodzenia =
Merkmale von Produzenten wahrscheinlich polnischen Ursprungs
Features of producers probably of Polish origin
Wsrod amunicji strzeleckiej produkowanej w latach 1919-1925, wystepuja noboje z oznaczeniami co do ktorych nie ma pewnosci kto byl ich producentem. W literaturze tematu oraz warod kolekcjonerow naboje te przypisywane sa rozmaitym wytworniom.
Czestotliwosc wystepowania niektorych oznaczen na terenia naszego kraju pozwala domniemywac, ze amunicja ta mogla zostac wyprodukowana w rodzimych zakladach! krakowskich lub poznanskich warsztatatach amunicyjnych poznanskiej wytworni lusek i lodek karabinowych lub wojskowej wytworni amunicji karabinowej
Unter den 1919-1925 hergestellten Schießmunitionen befinden sich Patronen mit Markierungen, bei denen nicht sicher ist, wer der Produzent war. In der Literatur zum Thema und zur Methode der Sammler werden diese Patronen verschiedenen Herstellern zugeordnet.
Die Häufigkeit des Auftretens einiger Markierungen in unserem Land lässt vermuten , dass diese Munition in einheimischen Werken hergestellt worden sein könnte ! Munitionswerkstätten in Krakau oder Posen, der Waffenfabrik in Posen und der Waffengewehrfabrik oder der Militärgewehrfabrik
Among the shooting ammunition produced in 1919-1925, there are cartridges with markings as to which it is uncertain who the producer was . In the literature on the subject and the method of collectors, these cartridges are attributed to various labels . (Ie Makers)
The frequency of occurrence of some markings in our country allows us to suppose that this ammunition could have been produced in domestic plants ! Krakow or Poznan ammunition workshops of the Poznan gun factory and gun rifle factory or the military rifle factory
Das heist, keine Gewissheit / no proof of manufacture in Poland!!
In the same timeframe there was secret rearmament of Austria already going on, and not so secret after the soviet days production in Hungary, and also in Romania (where I myself found a lot of this (fired) cases…so no proof either for domestic production there).
As long I have no box or drawings, or literature with PROOF of documents in my hand, the ammo will stay in my collection in Status “uncertain, no known producer”
So everybody can sort them in, where he wants, but for me: see above
Thanks anyway…and maybe someone finds a box, or an officiell paper, which documents the provenience…but the thesis in this book are for me to much belonging in, “maybe, uncertain, could be made…”
SFM also produced the 8m/m M93 (Mannlicher) for Bulgaria with the Austrian-type central flash hole primer pocket. Jack