Mauser 7.92 no headstamps

Hello,
I have this Mauser case without headstamps. Once I found a thread about no headstamped 7.92 Mausers.

But still I am not sure. Is it japanese production?


A big clue might be where you found it.

You are saying this empty (?) cartridge case weighs 420 grains? Jack

The primer cup does not look Japanese for me, or at least is not like any incendiary round (green primer seal is incendiary if Japanese) I have seen.

The Portuguese made unheadstamped 7.9, much of which showed up in Angola, and some in MILSURP ammo sold in the USA. They used a 3-stab primer crimp and a green primer seal of some of their 7.9, including unheadstamped ones. The problem is that there are also German rounds that look almost identical to the Portuguese ones.l.

John Moss

German werehouse in Poland, but here was everything e.g. Spain civil war mausers, 9x25 export etc. etc.

Yes, Its empty but I can not check it weight now.

Thank you for information but how could germans get them?

These are not Japanese then.

It is, due to various comments above, not Portuguese, one of the possibilities I mentioned. I don’t know of an unheadstamped Polish 7.9 x 57 round (not saying there were never any - I have just never heard of any). Regarding “how could Germans get them,” lacking anymore information, it is highly possible that the made them in the first place.

John M.

Thank You for for the explanation John! So it’s impossible to determine the manufacturer at the moment? or weighing will help?

My idea is Romanian production. See foto

2 Likes

anemon - Yes, without a box label, it may well be difficult or impossible to tell exactly who made this one. Cartridge weight with 7.9s is always interesting, but not always a help to ID, since so many makers, especially in the WWII years and the years leading up to that war, used the German Standard for this caliber of ammunition. Perhaps the size and shape of the primer crimps would be of help, but you would have to have known specimens of cartridges with this type of crimp with which to compare them. Those cartridges could be headstamped ones. As I recall, when I was collecting, I found the crimps pretty similar though, and I did not classify these cartridges by country unless I took them out of original packaging. I did have positively identified samples of German and Portuguese, from boxes, both virtually identical, but I don’t recall what else I had like them, if any.

Luger - yes, it is possible this cartridge is Romanian. However, according to my collection catalog for 7.9s, which I retained when I sold off the collection, I had 34 Romanian 7.9 x 57 cartridges, plus several samples of packaging, and I had no unheadstamped rounds that I could identify as being Hungarian. Unfortunately, unless you have the box label, your nice photographs do not positively identify the cartridge shown as being Hungarian. If you do have the box label, please post a picture of it. Thank you.

John M.

Luger -

JohnMoss- discussion on czech forum:
free translation: probably German production (DWM?) for Romania army. These rounds were commonly found in Moravia (Czech Republic)
https://naboje.org/comment/6105#comment-6105
No more information.

I have no doubts about the information. The problem is, once again, they are not the only unheadstamped 7.9 x 57 rounds with green primer seals and similar primer crimps. At our store once, mixed in the full, Portuguese-language labeled boxes with FNM headstamps, were boxes of unheadstamped cartridges of the same description as those in your pictures and the first pictures on this thread. If you have a round taken from the original, labeled box, you can safely tell where, and often for whom, the cartridges were made. In the absence of that, or other documentation (for example, cartridges actually found by the collector or his source in Romania, you can have a pretty good idea that they are as you say. Otherwise, identification of these, in my opinion, is a bit of a problem.

John Moss

Yes, you are right. I just want to help or direct a possible path for further research

This is a discussion that can go on forever! Portugal, both before and during WWI bought/acquired quite a bit of foreign ammunition in various calibers, including some that likely came from Germany like the P 24 headstamped 9x19mm. If these 7.9 were German for Romania, they could have easily have found their way to Portugal and gotten mixed with FNM 7.9s! Even a comparison of powder would not have been a definite identification. During WWII, Portugal was a major covert supplier tungsten to the Germans in exchange for gold, so the Germans were glad to supply military gear in lieu of gold.

Good thread,
Lew

The cartridges I spoke of from Portugal were not mixed with FNM 7.9s in boxes. There were boxes full of just the no headstamped rounds. The characteristics of the cartridges matched the FNM rounds. I personally think those were made in Portugal by FNM. It is true that the Portuguese 7.9 rounds from FNM generally followed the pattern set by the German Standards. That is not to say that I don’t believe Portugal received any assistance in their own arms industries from the Germans, nor, of course that they didn’t use German weapons. The “Portuguese” Luger Pistol variations were, of course, all of German manufacture.

Lew is right. This discussion could go back and forth forever, with no gain in knowledge for anyone, until real documentation is found for all of the various and similar 7.9 cartridges with green primer seals, no headstamp, and 3 staked primer crimps.

John

In my opinion it looks like a German 1939 contract for Romania, but not sure from which manufacturer, because there are three very similar unheadstamped examples made by DWM, Treuenbritzen and Polte.

By the way, Techcrim of Rusia is currently offering cartridges made from components of those three German 1939 contracts mentioned above.

Fede - it could very well be that. I had about five unheadstamped, verified-German 7.9s with no headstamps in my collection. Don’t recall what they all were, but three were green primer seal, with and without the three primer crimps, and one with a black seal (Type S ball). I think it had primer crimps, but don’t recall for sure. I will have to check my old catalog. It is large enough that a quick search a couple of days ago didn’t find my entries for German non-headstamped rounds, but they are in there somewhere.

Does anyone have a box, with rounds still in it, for any of the unheadstamped German rounds, especially boxes for a Romanian contract. Just wondered because I have never seen one, nor did I ever run across a cartridge of the type we are talking about that had a verified Romanian connection, despite having a good source years ago for Romanian 7.9s.

John Moss.

John, here one such example.

Source internet.

92x57_Polte%20for%20Romania--