Mauser or Tokarev?

Is this cartridge a 7.62 x 25 Tokarev or 7.63 Mauser ?
Who manufactured it? Chinese?


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Mauser by Tianjin Arsenal Ca.1936
see lot 710 in sale 17 for a later date

Around 1955 China just sort of morphed its 7.63 Mauser production into 7.62 Tokarev. Same round, but headstamps and box labels changed. From everything I’ve seen they used the same round for Mauser and Tokarev pistols, and whatever SMGs were available.

The difference between the two cartridges is the bullet diameter. While Mauser uses the “Western” diameter for 7.62/.30, which is 7.8 mm (.308"), Tokarev are for the “Russian” 7.62 mm barrels and have 7.9 mm (.311") bullets.
The Chinese communists at one point must have changed manufacture from pre-WW2 Western to Russian dimensions. This would in my view mark the changeover from 7.63 Mauser to 7.62 Tokarev.

Have you actually tested that theory?

Jon, just to have it based on physical data.
As you have all the specimen, could you measure some confirmed 7.63mm Mauser and some 7.62mm TT and let us know what you have found?

In 1952-3, Chunking (Qongqing) arsenal (296/26)as “121” formerly Arsenals 21 &41 ROC, were making 7,62×25 Trials ammo ( for SMGs) with Brass cases, anda very dirty powder.
Since 21/41 were pre-1949 making 7.63x25 Mauser ammo, the change over was simple.
As to Bullet diameter, I think it was only when the Soviets came in, in 1953, that steel cased ammo to Soviet specs was made ( .310-.311" bullet.
I have some pulled #121 factory bullets, and will check them.

Doc AV

PRC late 20th century barrel drawings show Tokarev dimensions (7.92 mm groove diameter, for example), which came into being around 1930 with the TT pistol. At that time ROC was at war with the Soviet Union.

So I assume that ROC ammunition for Mauser pistols and its copies was made based on dimensions as used outside Russia/the Soviet Union. If the PRC did not switch to the new dimensions and instead continued to make cartridges with Mauser dimensions, what is the criterion to call them Tokarev?

P.S. The CIP dimensional tables show the differences between 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev.

Here some Russian drawings showing several diameters for 7.62mm projectiles.

7.62x25: 7.85mm

“PS”: 7.92mm

“US” (an experimental version): 7.94mm
7.62x39_experimental US

7.62x39R: 7.82mm

7.62x54R “L”: 7.92mm

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I did it a few years back and will try to find the notes. If not I’ll try to get to it this weekend. If I recall, there were cross-overs and little difference amongst the measured 7.63/7.62 rounds.