Model Gun Company Toy Cartridge


#1

I have a solid brass dummy as shown in the poor drawing below. Any ideas what it is?


#2

Ron,
Does it look anything like the Japanese model gun cartridges (IAA Journal #452, page 46 and #454, page 49, 50) ?


#3

Chris–Yup, the picture in the current issue of the IAA Journal is exactly what it is. I had not gotton that far in reading the current issue yet. Thanks for the reference. Any guess as to what pistol case type this one is supposed to be. I would guess .38 ACP just off hand without checking diminisions.


#4

Are youze guys saying there’s a #454??

Ray


#5

Yes, Ray. I just got mine yesterday. But, since yours has to come by Pony Express, you might not get yours for a while.

Did you see my email to you about a couple of wildcats?


#6

I have one of these in .45ACP, it came from a fake M1911 magazine holding 3 of them. I know it was fake as a real .45 ACP wouldn’t fit. I don’t have the mag anymore anyway, I gave it away because it was fake. I bought it for


#7

Just a caution on trying to put a conventional caliber name (.38 ACP, etc.) to these solid brass, Japanese toy cartridges based on their general proportions and measurements. Remember, they are for toy guns. While in some cases they are very close to cartridges of the normal caliber of the gun represented by the toy, sometimes they are not. I have quite a number of them in my auto pistol cartridge collection - not displayed within each separate caliber in my collection, but rather displayed all together for that very reason. I am not even 100% positive that every one that I have is for a toy auto pistol, despite having the general length and head-style (rimless with extractor groove) of auto pistol cartridges.


#8

Hello Everybody!

Funny to see this contraptions showing up again!

They were “ammunition” for the first Japanese "replicas"sold mostly in Europe in the 70ies, under diverse brand names, one of them, at least in France, being NAKATA…

The “round” had a small excavation in ogive to be filled by a toy primer, the solid barrel of the "weapon"having a pin to strike it mounted at its rear part.

The guns were pretty well made and could be dismantled as real ones, but they weree made from a “poor and cheap” alloy, similar to Zamak, with a high proportion of zinc, so some parts broke easily, and also their weight was very diffeent from the actual ones.

They had on purpose faked dimensions, so parts could not fit in actual weapons (This went especially for magazines, as , also in France, lots of people did possess unregisterd weapons from WWI, and were often short of such items).

As far as I remember, they were several models, including the Colt 1911A1 Colt, the Walther P 38 and a beautiful MP 40, very impressive when hanging on the wall behind your desk, especially here where such kind of automatic weapon is strictly forbidden to own for the layman…!

I must have somewhere the picture of an “ammo” carton, in supposed 45 ACP calibre,entirely white with black lettering.and a colored bar at top. I will try to find it again.

After a short while, this replicas were removed from the commercial circuit, as some bad guys had thought to use them for their activiyies like hold-ups, bank robbings, a.s.o., mixed with some actual weapon …, It was, of course, unpossible to see, in action, who had an actual weapon or not!

Later on, the Japanese authorities got also alarmed and decided that all this replicas were available, under the condition of being entirely painted bright yellow!!!
This was the end of this generation of replicas. More came back later on, like paint balls, but this is another story.

And the excellent replicas, like the FG 42 made by Tom Nelson are so expensive that the problem is different.

Philippe.


#9

Philippe–Thank you for the good dexcrption of how these replica guns worked. I was wondering what the hole in the nose was for.


#10

I remember when those fake guns started being sold here in the USA. Some of them were so real looking and so close in dimensions to the real thing that it was scary. It wasn’t long before they were being used to rob the local 7/11 and some guys were actually boring out the barrels and cylinders/chambers to try and fire real live ammo. Lawsuits followed, of course.

The one I remembered the most was the Thompson SMG. I bet the old ATF had nightmares over that one.

Ray


#11

In the long run, those models turned out to be a curse, rather than a blessing, for the gun owner. Toy guns are illegal now in California unless they are colored some bright color - no black or silver ones. Of course, that is of itself a stupid law - it could cause a real, loaded gun that someone has painted orange or something to go un-noticed, or to be ignored as a threat by a police officer. Years ago, one of my friends, a San Francisco Police Officer almost shot a guy who was running around the inside of the lodge at the opening of Golden Gate Park with a toy Schmeisser (MP40). Fortunately, the guy saw Dick, a WWII and Korean war vet, and threw the gun on the floor screaming “its a toy,” and saved his own life. Times have changed - what a world we live in.