Mohawk by Remington shotgun shells & .22 LR


#1

Hello-

New to the forum & had a question about the age of a shotgun shell box. The box is mainly red & partially white. White & black writing, with the ‘Mohawk’ writing & insignia in Yellow.

This is what is written on the box:

MOHAWK
25
DOVE & QUAIL
By REMINGTON

12GA 2 ¾
MF12 - 3 ¼ - 1 – 6

LAW20S505

Can anyone give me an idea about age/date of manufacture? I’d add a photo if I could figure out how ;)

Thanks


#2

Welcome to the forum!
You really do need to post pictures. Try going to photobucket and using their free service then copy the IMG code and paste it here.

I am not as up to date on the Remington line as others but the Mohawk series came and went in rimfire, centerfire and shotgun shells as well as some firearms and I believe it started in the 1960’s. If you post up some clear pics I’m sure someone can give you a date range on the box.


#3

Mohawk was Remington’s promotional line for awhile, usually sold by discount store chains. There were several different box color schemes used for Mohawk - brown, green and yellow, and also red and white. I can’t pin down a date by box color. I bought a lot of .22 Mohawk ammunition in red and white boxes back in the 70’s, still have some.


#4

I was hopeing Ron or someone with Remington cataloges would help us out but I did a little research and have come up with this;

The Mohawk series of shotshells seems to be from the mid-1970’s with at least 2 variations in box type. One was like yours and one was a mostly green box with yellow or golden bars on the end flaps. The shells were headstamped with MOHAWK BY REMINGTON. All of the Mohawk series, guns and ammo, were less expensive alternatives to the main line and were probably made of lesser quality materials. In 1974 a box of Mohawk Dove & Quail loads could be purchased for as little as $2.37, listing for about $2.98 I think. I do not know when Remington discontinued the Mohawk line.


#5

Shotmeister–There is a good reason why I have not joined in this thread. Simply put, I have nothing to add to what has been said by others. The Promotional Loads are not listed in the normal Retail and Dealers catalogs. They were sold to dealers with a separate Promotional Flyer, a one or two page typed listing. I have very few of these. The earliest I have is 1984 and Remington was selling the Dove & Quail Promotional Loads by that time.


#6

The Mohawk trademark for ammunition was registered by Remington on August 28, 1973 (application filled on May 3, 1972).


#7

Oh contrae Ron, I think you and Fede have added something, as always. Every little bit adds to the pile until we get a whole story. I never knew the promotional loads were not part of cataloges and the registration date of the Mohawk name ties in with the add I found, posted a year later. So we can conclude that 73 or 74 was the entry date for these shells, now we just need the ending date for the Mohawk line. From your info it seems that they did not last to 84.


#8

Shotmeister–Here is an example of how Promotional Loads are handled by Remington.


#9

I see that the promotional .22 on the list is identified at this time as “Thunderbolt” not Mohawk. That suggests the Mohawk nomenclature (at least for .22 ammunition) stopped some time prior to 1984. I doubt if the promotional ammunition’s quality was appreciably, if any, less than the flagship Remington brand, but there probably were some minor corners cut. Putting crappy ammunition on the market under another name would certainly damage the market’s perception of the Remington brand. For example, I don’t remember Mohawk .22 bullets having the typical Remington gold-plated bullets. More likely, the national discount store chains (K-Mart, Woolco, Target, Wal-Mart, and many others of a more local market), would buy much more of it than most any ammunition jobber, therefore Remington had to have some excuse for giving them a better price, that being that Mohawk was an “Economy” brand. Same tactic is used today for all sorts of items, such as supermarket house brands (which are often made by the same large companies that make nationally branded products such as H. J. Heinz, Campbell Soup, Green Giant, Procter & Gamble, etc).


#10

Dennis–Based on the .22 Thunderbolt, which replaced the Mohawk .22’s, we can push the date that Mohawk ammunition was discontinued to 1976. Thunderbolts were introduced in 1977. I’m not sure if Mohawk shotshells were discontinued in 1976 or not, but probably.


#11

Could well be. I tried to remember the date period during which I purchased the red and white Mohawk .22 boxes, and came to the conclusion it had to be between early 1972 and mid-1976. I still have a couple of bricks of that stuff somewhere.

I have seen Mohawk shotshell boxes that closely resembled the standard Remington green and yellow box, the only difference being that Mohawk was printed in one corner on the front. These were likely from the latest production. I may even have one of those among my trove of empty boxes.


#12

Would using the name “Mohawk” be seen as politically incorrect today? Someone would surely take offense to it.


#13

Could well be, as there are sizeable numbers of Mohicans still around in New York, Ontario, and even New York City. Maybe they are not easily offended as there is one very large US flooring products company which uses Mohawk as its corporate name, and I haven’t heard of any complaints about it.


#14

This is one variation of the Mohawk box but I do not believe it is the one the poster has. I’ve only seen a B&W sketch of that one and poor quality.


#15

You can see a picture of one of the Mohawk brown shotshell boxes here:
worthpoint.com/worthopedia/p … -111030309
There is also a Mohawk .22 box of the same general brown design.

Now for the rest: I found one of my bricks of the red and white Mohawk .22. The shotshell box I have seen is of the same general design. The .22 HS is U, bullet is solid 40 grain and unplated. Address is Bridgeport. The lot number impressed on the inside of the end flap is U19W1B. So can someone decipher the date from that? By the way, the price sticker on the brick indicates it came from Hart’s, an Ohio discount store chain, and the price was $5.99. Yes, that’s 60 cents per box. That makes me more sure that I bought this sometime in the 1971-1976 period, as I lived where there was a Hart’s store at that time. Therefore it is logical that a similar red and white shotshell box would be of about the same date.


#16

Remington Arms’ oldest production facility is as everyone knows, is in Ilion, NY located on the Mohawk River (sometimes called the Erie Canal, or NYS barge Canal ) and the adjoining town is Mohawk, NY. No problems with PC issues.


#17

Regarding the date of my .22 Mohawk box, I went back to the method described in IAAJ #469 by Dick Fraser for dating Remington boxes from the lot number. Although the decoding method described went up only to 1964, it indicated the leading letter “U” meant manufacture occurred during the second half of 1960. If in fact the 11-year cycle described holds true (and it may not) after 1964, that would place my boxes’ date as being from the second half of 1971 (1960+11), which is consistent with the time period (1971-76) that I had to have purchased it. Now, the only thing wrong with this presumption is Fede’s disclosure that “The Mohawk trademark for ammunition was registered by Remington on August 28, 1973 (application filled on May 3, 1972).” I suppose there was nothing wrong with Remington’s using the trade name “Mohawk” prior to trademark registration, and if the manufacturing date was late 1971, that must have been the case. It does indicate that the red and white color scheme was likely “The first of the Mohicans.” I have to believe someone here already knows the dating of the various (at least three) Mohawk box designs - it just wasn’t all that long ago.


#18

Dennis, although the trademark registration may not reflect actual use, the expedient says it was “first used”/“first used in commerce” in January 19, 1972.

There is also a big difference between “when a cartridge is fabricated” and “when a cartridge is commercially offered”. This means that the box could actually have been manufactured during mid to late 1971 and first offered commercially in early 1972.


#19

It had occurred to me that the .22 ammunition may have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for an unknown period of time before being shipped out to a retailer. I can say only that I purchased it between 1971 and 1976, so a late 1971 manufacturing date would be consistent, and also indicates an early use of the Mohawk name.

So, just how rare and unusual are examples of Mohawk ammunition? I’ve seen some boxes over the last few years, but not many.


#20

Dennis–The sequence of use by color is Red-White, Brown-Yellow then Green.