More 9mm I did not remember

I found this box in with .30 cal hunting ammo, figuring I have not seen it in better than 15 years, since that was the last time I used that card stock in ammo boxes, and the last time I shot 9mm.

The GECO [right] I believe is the same Action-Geschoss [hollow bullet] I posted earlier…

The Winchester [middle] with blue tip is… ?

The TZ 77 [left] with black tip is…?

And thanks, again for the ID assiatance!

PS: Update:
Oh, and just foor clarification, I do sometimes mis-type because I have one good hand, and one, well, not so good.
I am somewhat colourblind, and a scar damaged right eye, so sometimes I dont see things quite as clearly as I might, or as you guys do. Plus some memory loss.
So, please bear with me and try to understand when I get simple things wrong, thanks.

You mention the TZZ 77 having a black tip. In the picture, it appears to be red. If so, its a tracer.

John Moss

O.K., my colourblindness is kicking in again, but I could swear… ahhh… and my lighting sucks.

So, who made TZ 77?

Basically, IMI of Israel made the TZ and TZZ headstamped cartridges. I forget the exact meaning in Hebrew of “TZ” and would spell it wrong anyway, and don’t have time at the moment to look it up. Am busy with another project for Lew.

John Moss

The TZ is a transliteration of Ta’asiyah Tzva’it, or Industries Military…Israel Military Industries. The extra Z in TZZ was apparently to fulfill a US Navy requirement for a 3 letter code.


Thanks, much appreciated, and labled accordingly.

Any ideas on the Winchester 9mm?

I suspect the blue-tipped Winchester load is from on the those “specialty” makers that load things like tracers, incendiaries, and the like using available components. The blue, normally, would be an incendiary load, but who knows. We don’t see these in California due to our laws on these types of loads - prohibited. I don’t know of any original 9 mm Para cartridge made by Winchester having a blue tip, but perhaps someone else does - documentation please!

Often, by the way, factory FMJ bullets are altered by these companies into tracers and the like.

Lacking a packaging label, one could guess at the maker, but to know specifically is almost impossible for anyone that has not broken down the ammo to components and is familiar with what the various companies loading these cartridges use.

John Moss

Subsonic maybe?