More 9x19mm(?) acquisitions

Below are a few more items obtained from the collection mentioned in my last email.

From the right:
– Gray composite 148gr bullet. I do not recognize it, and it may not be 9x19mm. Does anyone recognize this bullet?

– Cylindrical bullet, looks like solid GM. I suspect this is a 38 Spl/357 Ultramag bullet by PMC. Apparently they tried it in 9mmL and I have an unheadstamped, polished specimen that looks like an Ultramag display load. Can anyone confirm that this is the 38/357 bullet??

– I picked this one up because it was, like the other two, with the 9x19mm loads in the collection. Oaw is 87gr. The bullet is 7.8mm and the sabot is 8.9mm so it is a bit small to be a 9mm bullet. Can anyone identify this bullet???

– The load round has an oaw of 243gr so the bullet is likely to be around 180gr. The collector who had it apparently knew Lee Jurras well, and claimed he was given, by Jurras, a handful of these rounds to try out. They are reportedly loaded with two 380 bullets base to base which is consistent with both the weight and slight rise just below the casemouth. The case has a normal Super Vel headstamp. Has anyone seen this load before?

Again, any help appreciated.


YES…i have a full PMC box of (end flap) 38J SPECIAL 66 GR. Tubular + P
back then the sticker price was $ 15.15
ps dont remember the year sigh…maturity…

The bullet looks exactly like the .38 pill I pulled from factory .38sp PMC Ultramag, right down to the dark crud/sealant.

I used to have a 9mmP proto, no headstamp…never pulled that bullet but I’ve since lost the cartridge. I recall when compared nose to nose the .38 UMag had a larger opening and different ogive than the 9mm. I also recall the 9mm pill was lighter/shorter than the .38.

If you’ve got time, I can pull another .38, and send you the plastic obturator to see if it fits. That might be more conclusive.

Thanks for the id. I thought the Cylindrical bullet was the 38. Many thnaks.

Mwinter, am very interested in knowning more of the 9mm Prototype. If you ever run across it, I would appreciate a heads up!


Lew, the one with the plastic “sabot” looks like a Hodgdon self-lubricating plastic half jacket for .38/.357 (which was also used as an over-powder wad or as a shot cup for shot loadings). If you are able to take the bullet apart we may know what is is.


With regards to #1…possibly one of the older Winchester LE SXT 147gr pills in .38sp? I recall they were used by Australian police at some point.